Paul based his argument for believing in his doctrine on the promise that all converts could be resurrected just as Jesus had been. It was a common Pharisee belief.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:35 am)Irrational Wrote: It is still some form of body, spiritual or not.

Exactly what is the spiritual form of a body?
If it's not a zombie, then I've made the point that early Christian writers did not hypothesize that people climb out of the ground after they die.
Which is great, because that'd be gross.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:50 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Paul based his argument for believing in his doctrine on the promise that all converts could be resurrected just as Jesus had been. It was a common Pharisee belief.

That's what I'm trying to point out to Purplundy. But his/her choice to continue that discussion.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:50 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Paul based his argument for believing in his doctrine on the promise that all converts could be resurrected just as Jesus had been. It was a common Pharisee belief.

The Pharisees killed Jesus.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:20 am)ignoramus Wrote: I've never subscribed to the religious explanation/description of god.
But at times I've wondered about lots of other shit like ghosts, reincarnation, godlike entities and wondered if they could ever be explained by the scientific method.
I'm sure thousands of years ago, lightning and thunder were supernatural events.
Because science can explain them now, they become "natural" events.
Since we don't know everything about our universe, we logically have to conclude that there are still things out there that we can classify as "supernatural". Nothing can of course be "magical" in our known universe, otherwise it "breaks" the laws of the universe. And of course no one has been able to make magic happen in a testable and repeatable fashion.
This is why bibles, qurans, etc, have ZERO scientific merit.
But in those days when they were written, many things were "supernatural", so why not throw in a bit more bullshit, no-one will tell the difference! (Except science)

Thats funny, I am the most scientifically grounded person you will ever meet. With that being said...as a recovering alcoholic and "psycho-prescription" (fucking doctors) drug addict I use to try to prove that my hallucinations were real by setting up experiments. It has been a while but I seem to remember that I was duly impressed and stunned with the results. I wish I would have written down the results of my experiences. I remember thinking that "something" satisfied all of my "five sense criteria" except smell. It is something I have thought about over the years but I am sure I was just unconscious or something. I would never subject my brain to the abuse that it took to get to that state ever again but I would love to find a much safer (and controlled) environment to explore it a bit further. It did set me on a course to further study the brain and quantum physics so I guess its not all bad.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:52 am)Purplundy Wrote:

(July 4, 2014 at 12:50 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: Paul based his argument for believing in his doctrine on the promise that all converts could be resurrected just as Jesus had been. It was a common Pharisee belief.

The Pharisees killed Jesus.

Actually, it was the Romans. And no, the Pharisees didn't have much influence (contrary to popular belief).

(July 4, 2014 at 12:39 am)naturestubbs1 Wrote: As i have maintained in the past I have no idea how humans think that we are somehow "different" than any other living organism.

I'd actually like the idea of being buried in the woods and giving my carbon to something that needs it.
That doesn't mean that I'd die for a tree as opposed to a person, either.

---

(July 4, 2014 at 12:55 am)Irrational Wrote:

(July 4, 2014 at 12:52 am)Purplundy Wrote: The Pharisees killed Jesus.

Actually, it was the Romans. And no, the Pharisees didn't have much influence (contrary to popular belief).

Wait a second. I'm legitimately curious. Was Jesus brought to trial by Jews or Romans?
Either way, it's not like Jesus would have exactly been on the best terms with any Jewish sect at the time.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:46 am)Purplundy Wrote:

(July 4, 2014 at 12:30 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: If the dead are resurrected as spirits how did the resurrected Jesus walk around as a physical body?

The story of Jesus is simply a narrative and I don't think it relates to what is supposed to happen to every human being three days after they die.
In the accounts of his life, bodily resurrection is something specially attributed to Jesus, probably more as a demigod-bonus.

Well if the way you interpret the story is as flexible as all that, then just how do you 'hold' your faith? Is it all wisdom stories and parables with those who recognize them as such keeping it on the down-low? I think many clergymen loose the literal beliefs but stay in the community and to feel like the shepherd. I'm probably making too much of this.

(July 4, 2014 at 12:56 am)Purplundy Wrote:

(July 4, 2014 at 12:55 am)Irrational Wrote: Actually, it was the Romans. And no, the Pharisees didn't have much influence (contrary to popular belief).

Wait a second. I'm legitimately curious. Was Jesus brought to trial by Jews or Romans?
Either way, it's not like Jesus would have exactly been on the best terms with any Jewish sect at the time.

The Pharisees weren't the ones with the political power (Sadducees were more powerful politically). They were just one subset among the religious Jews of the time.

(July 4, 2014 at 1:13 am)whateverist Wrote: Well if the way you interpret the story is as flexible as all that, then just how do you 'hold' your faith? Is it all wisdom stories and parables with those who recognize them as such keeping it on the down-low? I think many clergymen loose the literal beliefs but stay in the community and to feel like the shepherd. I'm probably making too much of this.

No, you're making just enough out of this, and that is an important question that I need to answer.
I know that a Jesus figure did exist and certain people wrote about him.
Did he rise from the dead? I don't know, he hasn't proven that he did, to me anyways.
Worst case scenario: He didn't. His body decomposed and is humus on its way to the planet's core. That would be disappointing; he seemed like such a nice guy. But it has no effect on my life; the Christian practice of loving your neighbor is not affected by whether or not a Jew walked outside of a cave on Sunday morning. That doesn't even mean that what he taught was false; I'd still agree that we need to help the poor for reasons other than, "Jesus said so." To think otherwise would be an appeal to hypocrisy.
When I talk about Biblical events, I don't mean to say whether or not they happened. I'm just acknowledging that that is what somebody wrote down in a book.