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How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
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 (July 24, 2014 at 9:59 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: No kidding, I was stunned at the depiction of Hell in "The Devil in Miss Jones". Define.... 'abstinence'?  ... How thick are these walls? Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
As I recall the plot, and please, anyone jump in if I don't remember it accurately, I haven't seen the movie in 35 years, is like this:
Miss Jones commits suicide as a virgin. She protests being condemned to Hell since she didn't really sin much prior to her death. It is agreed she can return to earth for a specific time to sin all she wants so she will feel she deserves hell. She fucks. A lot!! Oh, my, first time I saw double entry. Anyhow, she screws her brains out (even with my young gay sensibilities I was impressed with her enthusiasm) and then is sent to Hell. Only now, since she REALLY, REALLY, REALLY likes sex, for her, Hell is going to be abstinence. Probably my first exposure to 'ironic punishment'. 
You might be surprised what someone can do with a concrete wall, if given eternity.
Please give me a home where cloud buffalo roam
Where the dear and the strangers can play
Where sometimes is heard a discouraging word
But the skies are not stormy all day
 (July 24, 2014 at 8:58 pm)professor Wrote: Ah, Esq, you make it easy. In our lifetime? Piece of cake.... Got any dates for any of that? I mean, it's funny how different your predictions are, when compared to your postdictions: before you were referencing specific events with such specificity, talking about the dates they happened and their numerical significance... I thought that was the stuff these bible predictions were made of? Or is it just events that have conveniently already happened, that are like that? Because when you're asked to produce the same kind of thing for the future, you don't; instead we get vaguely worded things without the dates, and only the most general of time frames. Why, it's almost as if you were just retrofitting events into the bible's generic language before, to make it seem more prophetic than the words in the book actually are!  hock:
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!  RE: How do you know you'll still be you when you get to heaven?
July 25, 2014 at 6:46 am
(This post was last modified: July 25, 2014 at 6:48 am by Ben Davis.)
(July 24, 2014 at 8:58 pm)professor Wrote: ![[Image: HomerCrazy.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=www.simpsoncrazy.com%2Fcontent%2Fpictures%2Ffamily%2FHomerCrazy.gif) (July 24, 2014 at 8:58 pm)professor Wrote: Ah, Esq, you make it easy. In our lifetime? Piece of cake....So first you contradict yourself then you admit you can't actually meet Esqui's challenge as you can't give accurate predictions as to when these things will happen. Harold Camping would be proud.
Sum ergo sum
 (July 22, 2014 at 1:38 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: One of the big questions that I like to ask about heaven is: is there free will in heaven? Because one of the most common things I hear theists say is that God doesn't directly and indisputably reveal himself to every individual because he doesn't want to break their free will by forcing belief in and worship of himself upon them. However in heaven one would assume that the existence and character of God would be indisputable and directly present to everyone, so they lose the ability to disbelieve. It seems like heaven would be full of robots. Exactly. As much as Christians will fap to free will to solve theodicy, the standard notion of heaven tends to completely unravel that. They're left with three options: 1) No free will in heaven. Then why is it so important for 80 years on Earth if we live for infinity years in heaven without it? 2) Free will in heaven, but we just always choose to be good. Then why are we able to be bad here on earth? 3) God needs to test us before we can be rewarded with heaven. Why? It is either arbitrary or a system to which a non-omnipotent god is bound. As soon as they admit to an (eternal!) existence where free will is no longer important, their whole world view surrounding the problem of evil falls apart. I've never gotten a good answer to that. The best I get is apologists trying to run a wide enough circle long enough hoping that I don't notice when they come back to where they started. It's a lot of bouncing back and forth between "God is great and all powerful", "God can't see the future and needs to test us", "God is just and needs to punish wickedness", and "God needs to know who really loves him. Do you want to be a robot?".  (July 24, 2014 at 9:07 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I'm sure the folks in Hell having molten iron poured into their bodies cavities can feel it. Yes, but at least it's something to do of an evening. In 'heaven', all you apparently get to do is sit around with a multitude of glassy-eyed pious cunts for eternity, all telling "God" how big he is. Call me Mr Picky, but sixty seconds of that and I'm tunnelling out.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
 (July 22, 2014 at 1:33 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Supposedly when you accept Yahweh/Allah/Jesus into your heart, he takes out all the parts he doesn't like, and the rest goes to be with him in heaven. Except that people are the sum of their parts. If you take away their life experiences, how can you say they will be themselves anymore? How is that different from having a lobotomy? You might say that it just removes the darker parts, but leaves the lighter parts, but the dark and the light are still parts of you. You just wouldn't be the same if you took out chunks of your life and thoughts and replace them with whatever another person finds more acceptable.I'm not the same person I was a year ago, or ten years ago, etc. I'll be different 10 years from now, having gained some experiences and forgotten others. Doesn't bother me here, so I don't see why it would bother me in heaven. 
Hi Esq,
Remember, I said no one gets the dates. In general, prophecy from the Bible gets understood after it comes to pass. The Jews had a puzzle about their Messiah, Born of a virgin, out of Egypt, born in Bethlehem of Ephratah (there were 2 cities named such), from the lineage of David, etc. They were given the exact timing he would come- from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, yet they tripped over the outcome. From the Bible, there were a couple people aware of the timing of their visitation. One of the priests and his wife. That's it. Today, out of 7 billion people there are a similar percentage of watchful people aware of where we are in time. Unlike the OT folk, we do not have a word about the exact time of visitation. A plus for you guys is when we leave- you will know what you need to do. A negative for you guys is you will have to endure the worst time imaginable- Because you (like the Jews of Old) missed the time of Departure. Just as in the days of Noah. Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah when He COMES. Noah went UP over the flood. He then said it would be like the days of Lot when He is REVEALED. Two different concepts. Lot stayed on terra-firma and was removed from the place of destruction, but lost everything. Lot = Jesus' revealing Himself to the nations at His 2nd Coming. Again the sequence- a departure (the Rapture) first, then judgment falls. I want to add here, that the judgment to come will be in response to the increasing evil (we currently observe), perpetrators of violence and judgment on the beast system in place now and increasing.  (July 26, 2014 at 11:53 am)alpha male Wrote:(July 22, 2014 at 1:33 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Supposedly when you accept Yahweh/Allah/Jesus into your heart, he takes out all the parts he doesn't like, and the rest goes to be with him in heaven. Except that people are the sum of their parts. If you take away their life experiences, how can you say they will be themselves anymore? How is that different from having a lobotomy? You might say that it just removes the darker parts, but leaves the lighter parts, but the dark and the light are still parts of you. You just wouldn't be the same if you took out chunks of your life and thoughts and replace them with whatever another person finds more acceptable.I'm not the same person I was a year ago, or ten years ago, etc. I'll be different 10 years from now, having gained some experiences and forgotten others. Doesn't bother me here, so I don't see why it would bother me in heaven. Is that because you grew as an individual, or because someone gave you a lobotomy? There's a difference. Despite christians claiming they are "born anew" when they accept Jesus down here, they haven't really changed all that much. They still sin. they still go through the same temptations that everyone else has. I may not be the same person I was ten years ago, but that's because I changed little by little over time, and I changed because I decided to. Not because someone else removed everything about me that they didn't like.
Poe's Law: "Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing."
10 Christ-like figures that predate Jesus. Link shortened to Chris ate Jesus for some reason... http://listverse.com/2009/04/13/10-chris...ate-jesus/ Good video to watch, if you want to know how common the Jesus story really is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50 A list of biblical contradictions from the infallible word of Yahweh. http://infidels.org/library/modern/jim_m...tions.html |
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