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August 5, 2014 at 10:08 am (This post was last modified: August 5, 2014 at 10:19 am by Anomalocaris.)
(August 4, 2014 at 9:10 pm)Drich Wrote:
(August 4, 2014 at 10:40 am)Stimbo Wrote: There is a simpler explanation that fits the known facts: there may be nothing to be found. You have to consider that possibility; anything else is cherrypicking.
What makes you think their is nothing to be found? Because you found nothing? The possibility that nothing exists ceases to be a possibility when one finds what he is looking for. I found God. Is it time for another Spider-Man esque origins reboot? Surely for as much fun as you had last time you should know for me their is no other possible explanation for God than God. Or rather their is no better proof for God than God. A/S/k is a promise by God to receive a measure of God to guide and direct you to the relationship He has offered all of us.
I think there is nothing to be found because I can't replicate your results and you can't demonstrate you actually got the results you claimed you got.
By any standard of evidence this would be enough to dismiss your claim as not living up to the minimum standard required to be taken seriously.
As if that is not enough, you admitted you would have perceived a result even when by our standards we would have perceived a self-delusion. You in effect announced to us that in addition to not being able to table anything besides your spittle, you are also of a lower level intellectual integrity than what would cause us to give your words any second thought.
Not only can you not prove what you said were true, you admitted you lack basic facilities for testing a concept for ingredients if wishful thinking and delusion that an educated person would consider minimum standard of intellectual integrity.
A person known to not caring much for separating facts from fiction, and can't produce any proof of what he claims.
(August 4, 2014 at 3:13 pm)Thackerie Wrote: Non sequitur. What I said was typical of christians was "either/or" (or call it "black/white" thinking. I made no comment having to do with their perceptions of whether they're right or with "niceness." It seems you just want to take offense.
I am always having to say "yes, but not one of those kind." Because of stupid comments like this.
the typical Christian is not black and white only thinking. Period. The typical Christian is like the typical person anywhere. It is independent of belief. Unless of course you can prove that "belief" system determines the personality type. you will be the first.
Thank you for your comment. I think I now better understand your position as self-proclaimed "Athiest."
(August 5, 2014 at 4:36 am)jesus_wept Wrote: I have just asked, seeked and knocked God and Krishna answered, what next?
Grab a copy of the Gita and challenge Christians to "prove" it's not true without bothering to shoulder your burden of evidence. Then indulge in shameless mental contortions to explain away any decent points they may make. If they persist, blame them for their failure to see the Truth. Finally, retreat to a position condescension, pity, and hostility (dressed up as compassion and genuine concern for their well being) before starting the cycle again.
August 5, 2014 at 12:36 pm (This post was last modified: August 5, 2014 at 12:39 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(August 4, 2014 at 8:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: Incidentally, Huggy, if you'll indulge me: you state your religious views that you believe in "God" but not religion. So, why do you quote the xtian bible so much?
What I mean by that statement, is that I don't believe in "religious organization". The Bible has always been against organization of the church. For example the ancient Hebrews were the only nation not to have a traditional form of Government, they were led by God through a prophet (this is because initially when God personally spoke to the people on mount Sinai it frightened them, so from that point God only spoke to the people through Moses).
Eventually the Hebrews rejected that system and wanted to be like the other nations and install a king, and in doing so, they rejected God.
Which brings us to the system of religion.
Revelations 2
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate.
Revelations 2
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
the word, Nicolaitane, comes from two Greek words: "Nikao" which means "to conquer", and "Laos" which means "the laity" or "the people". which is exactly what a church organization does, they instituted a hierarchy in the church whereby they rule the congregation. The Catholic church being the biggest offender.
That's why God stated that he hated Nicolaitanism, they have traded the leadership of God, for man's leadership.
Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Quote:The Bible has always been against organization of the church.
Really?
You should read the fucking thing some time.
Quote:2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
1 Timothy 3
Of course you can take some solace in the fact that the pastoral epistles were later forgeries in the name of paul. But, then, you'd have to admit they were forgeries to gain that solace.
Oh well..... such are the problems facing the believer.
August 5, 2014 at 1:16 pm (This post was last modified: August 5, 2014 at 1:17 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(August 4, 2014 at 8:36 am)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(August 3, 2014 at 3:44 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: There is a story in the Bible about Jesus meeting a Samaritan woman at a well and revealing to her the sin she was keeping secret (she had something like 5 husbands).
Earlier I posted an old video (recorded sometime in the 1950's) of a man doing exactly the same thing. In case you haven't seen it: When people would come up to the stage to be healed, he, having never met the person, could tell them what sickness they had, name, and address ect.
This isn't done to showoff, it's done because divine healing is operated by faith (scientific studies using placebos show this). And gift of discernment makes it easier for the person to believe.
Everything must work according to scripture, for example; you may be familiar with a story in the Bible about a woman that was healed just by touching Jesus's robe.
Luke 8
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
We see that after the woman touched him she was healed, not by him but by her faith, but it also had the effect of making him weak, since he stated that the virtue (strength) had left him.
So if Jesus was made weak by someone operating their faith through him, what would it do to a normal human? On the video of William Branham you hear him say that he gets weak. Here's another quote from him transcribed from an audio recording August 8, 1950.
Quote:They used to come through here, and people... They'd send me out there to be--let me pray for the sick. I'd get so weak I couldn't stand up. Then two men, one on one side, one on the other, would hold me there, let the people come by and lay their hands on me.
Here is a picture of him being held up because he's too weak to stand on his own
So of course there are going to be "evangelists' imitating the real thing, but the fact that they feel no effects is totally contrary to the Bible.
Everything must work according to scripture, for example; you may be familiar with a story in the Bible about a woman that was healed just by touching Jesus's robe.
Luke 8
43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched.
45 And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?
46 And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
47 And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.
We see that after the woman touched him she was healed, not by him but by her faith, but it also had the effect of making him weak, since he stated that the virtue (strength) had left him.
So if Jesus was made weak by someone operating their faith through him, what would it do to a normal human? On the video of William Branham you hear him say that he gets weak. Here's another quote from him transcribed from an audio recording August 8, 1950.
Quote:They used to come through here, and people... They'd send me out there to be--let me pray for the sick. I'd get so weak I couldn't stand up. Then two men, one on one side, one on the other, would hold me there, let the people come by and lay their hands on me.
Here is a picture of him being held up because he's too weak to stand on his own
So of course there are going to be "evangelists' imitating the real thing, but the fact that they feel no effects is totally contrary to the Bible.
In every country and every age, the priest had been hostile to Liberty.
- Thomas Jefferson
August 5, 2014 at 1:35 pm (This post was last modified: August 5, 2014 at 1:42 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(August 5, 2014 at 12:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote:
Quote:The Bible has always been against organization of the church.
Really?
You should read the fucking thing some time.
Quote:2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full[a] respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons[b] are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
1 Timothy 3
Of course you can take some solace in the fact that the pastoral epistles were later forgeries in the name of paul. But, then, you'd have to admit they were forgeries to gain that solace.
Oh well..... such are the problems facing the believer.
Ok genius, The Bible refers the church as the "Body of Christ". The body is not an organization (hierarchy) is more of a team. As the saying goes; There is no "i" in team.
Organization has a couple.
to put it simply, can you call any of your body parts "the greatest"? Or do they all work together to make the body function as a whole?
Everyone has a role to play all led by the same spirit.
Make sense?
(August 5, 2014 at 10:08 am)Chuck Wrote: A person known to not caring much for separating facts from fiction, and can't produce any proof of what he claims.
Why are you still wasting our time?
He is Drich. He needs no other justification.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
(August 4, 2014 at 8:02 am)Stimbo Wrote: Incidentally, Huggy, if you'll indulge me: you state your religious views that you believe in "God" but not religion. So, why do you quote the xtian bible so much?
What I mean by that statement, is that I don't believe in "religious organization". The Bible has always been against organization of the church. For example the ancient Hebrews were the only nation not to have a traditional form of Government, they were led by God through a prophet (this is because initially when God personally spoke to the people on mount Sinai it frightened them, so from that point God only spoke to the people through Moses).
Ok, but you didn't really answer my question. Why quote the bible when referencing whatever you interpret as your god?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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