(August 6, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Blackout Wrote: In europe a conservative is not a republican (in europe a republican is simply someone who thinks a republic is better than a monarchy) so I guess we're not referring to the same type of political orientation. But on a broad sense, there's nothing stopping an atheist from being a conservative, maybe just not the american type. I always get these misunderstandings between me and americans because for me conservatism is largely different and in europe it equals american democrats

Oh sorry is just that I though that you were talking about the same kind of conservatism that Sarah Elizabeth Cupp belongs to. You know…since she is the subject of this topic.
Pardon me.

Commenting on the video:

1 - I agree that it is idiotic for an atheist to support a party who doesn't like State/church separation and is almost entirely Christian

2 - I don't see reasons why atheists can't be against gay marriage or abortion. Some atheists are just as prejudiced against gays as theists. Take a look at Russia, they are not that much religious and they hate gays. Prejudice is a human trait, hate is too a human trait, not a theist exclusive one. I also don't see reasons for some atheists to avoid imposing pro life legislation on women if they consider abortion immoral because they view a fetus as a human being, it's a perspective, not a very good one, but it's not impossible to formulate it. The example of my father in law, he is against gay marriage because he sees marriage without procreation as useless for society, he still has some dictatorship ideals from our former period in europe so don't take it harsh.

3 - Why can't an atheist be greedy and support the rich getting richer? Being an atheist doesn't entitle you automatically with intelligence and critical thinking, you could even be critical about religion and lack critical skills about anything else. I don't see reasons or motives for some atheists to not be greedy and favour tax breaks for themselves to keep more money

4 - About gun rights, since that problem is not set in europe I will not comment on it. I would have mixed views if I was an american, not anti, not pro, just in the middle

That being said, I don't think it is very reasonable to hold positions mentioned in number 2 and 3 as an atheist or any other kind of free thinker, I just don't support the idea that being an atheist automatically stops you from opting for those ideas... There are stupid superstitious atheists out there, if we start directing atheism towards a political idea, even if it is the most common one amongst members, it will soon become a cult of some sort. Let's just keep it as the lack of belief in gods or the belief that no gods exist

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(August 6, 2014 at 6:30 pm)Zidneya Wrote:

(August 6, 2014 at 6:23 pm)Blackout Wrote: In europe a conservative is not a republican (in europe a republican is simply someone who thinks a republic is better than a monarchy) so I guess we're not referring to the same type of political orientation. But on a broad sense, there's nothing stopping an atheist from being a conservative, maybe just not the american type. I always get these misunderstandings between me and americans because for me conservatism is largely different and in europe it equals american democrats

Oh sorry is just that I though that you were talking about the same kind of conservatism that Sarah Elizabeth Cupp belongs to. You know…since she is the subject of this topic.
Pardon me.

No problem, I know the video is about american politics, but I thought you were saying atheism is widely incompatible with any kind of conservatism. Pardon me I must say.

I guess I'm a republican because I consider a Repubic to be the best form of government, superior to a monarchy or an aristocracy, and saying that to an american would give the really wrong impression

It's almost as if she's an atheist version of a poe!

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:I don't believe in god but I'm not mad at him!

This mirrors a religious argument designed to misrepresent atheists: 'You do believe in him really, you're just angry and in denial!'.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:It seems like there's this idea, perpetuated by atheists, that atheists are somehow disenfranchised or left out of the political process.... and I don't find that to be the case.

WTF! When it's illegal for atheists to hold political office in 7 states? When atheists suffer discrimination and social exclusion? Okay, it's not as bad for a lot of atheists as it is for, say, members of the LGBT community but it seems like she's ignorant of or deliberately misrepresenting the challenges faced by atheists in her country on a day-to-day basis.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:When in fact atheists have become more vocal over the last decade or so...

Yes. This is in response to the social & political disenfranchisement. An intelligent & informed person would understand this so I have to conclude she's being deliberately obtuse.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:In many ways, atheists act like a religious body, unto themselves.

Sound familiar? I don't know how many times I've heard this argument from religious people.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:Conservatism is far more intellectually honest and respectful of atheism than liberalism...

Considering that the overwhelming majority of Conservatives in the US are religious, and right-wing, politicised Christianity is directly responsible for much of the disenfranchisment faced by atheists, I find this comment intellectually dishonest. She rebutts herself.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:For Conservatives, atheism is something that's tolerated...

Oh, thanks very much...

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:...respected; we appreciate an intellectual diversity.

That's something that Conservatives are famously not appreciative of.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:Most atheist Conservatives, including myself, have a healthy respect for the role of religion in society and in this country, in particular.

While that may be true (after all, political views & religious beliefs aren't mutually exclusive), anyone who has a 'healthy respect' for the way that the religious right have influenced politics in the US doeasn't have a 'healthy respect' for a large proportion of their fellow citizens, who are under daily attack by the right-wing (e.g. the 'wars' on universal healthcare, better education, living wages etc.).

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:And in contrast, on the left, it seems as though there's this knee-jerk embrace of what is more like a militant hostility, a reaction against intellectual diversity. It's exclusionary.

Holy shit. If she really thinks this, she doesn't have a clue what she's talking about; the political left is famous for its position on inclusivity. I think she's deliberately lying in order to undermine the politics held by a large proportion of atheists.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:Bill Maher thinks that 95% of the world has a neurological disorder...

Yes, 'cause we all base our actions on what a comedian thinks. FFS. An obvious piece of quote-mining, clearly out of context.

Sarah Elizabeth Cupp Wrote:Our atheists are better then yours!

Now who's being exclusionary?!

My conclusion: she's possibly a religious shill and definitely a liar. Her views should be exposed & opposed at every opportunity.

(August 6, 2014 at 6:29 pm)Rhythm Wrote: She's an actor on an entertainment network. More power to her, take that shit all the way to the bank.

Y'all can shut the thread down, this is pretty much it.

Cupp, like all these fascist assholes, is full of shit.

Something tells me she's probably not much of a conservative in the sack at least.

I'd bang her

Shit. A couple of glasses of wine and I'd bang you.

That means nothing.

It just goes to show you that not all atheists are rational. You can be an atheist and still believe in all kinds of crazy things that don't directly involve a god of some sort. You might believe in UFO abduction stories. You might believe in 9/11 Truther conspiracies. You might even read Ayn Rand* and think it economics gold.

As one example of social conservatism, two of the three most bigoted homophobes I've ever known were atheists. What made them different from the one Christian homophobe in my example was that the Christian could hide behind, "well, gee, it's not me, it's what God thinks." The two atheists could only either own their bigotry or try to pretend to minimize it whenever confronted.



*Assuming "The Invisible Hand" doesn't count as a deity.

(August 6, 2014 at 7:13 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: It just goes to show you that not all atheists are rational. You can be an atheist and still believe in all kinds of crazy things that don't directly involve a god of some sort. You might believe in UFO abduction stories. You might believe in 9/11 Truther conspiracies. You might even read Ayn Rand* and think it economics gold.

As one example of social conservatism, two of the three most bigoted homophobes I've ever known were atheists. What made them different from the one Christian homophobe in my example was that the Christian could hide behind, "well, gee, it's not me, it's what God thinks." The two atheists could only either own their bigotry or try to pretend to minimize it whenever confronted.



*Assuming "The Invisible Hand" doesn't count as a deity.

Most anti-gay people I've met don't really use god in their arguments, they just say a marriage without procreation is not a valid institution and that homosexuality is disgusting.