(August 19, 2014 at 2:20 am)revivin Wrote:

(August 19, 2014 at 2:16 am)little_monkey Wrote: Nothing might never have existed. Therefore something never came out of nothing.

So something had to come out of something.

What is your evidence, beyond hearsay, that any of the somethings had ever been your god?

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(August 19, 2014 at 9:08 am)Stimbo Wrote: We could play logical fallacy bingo with this guy at this point.

I guess levitated assertion and logically fallacy are each in itself insufficient to make a Christian. A Christian needs both.

(August 19, 2014 at 9:49 am)RobbyPants Wrote: The problem is: what's God's cause? Sure, you'll say he has no cause, and then I'll call special pleading. You said there's a universal rule to make God required, then you say he violates that very rule. So, to keep this from being special pleading, you'll give God some qualities like being "timeless" or eternal. That way, he can exist outside of our notion of causality.

No, no, no. See he has defined God specifically not to need any causing. (Too bad we didn't think of that for the universe, but then again we're not just making shit up.)

(August 19, 2014 at 9:49 am)RobbyPants Wrote: And therein lies the problem. Once you admit that you're fine believing in things that have no cause (as we know them), then you've gotten rid of the reason for proving that the universe needs a cause. If you feel God needs no cause because he's timeless or eternal, how do you know the universe isn't timeless or eternal?

This argument only makes sense from your loaded frame of reference. All you've managed to prove is that the Cosmological Argument fits nicely into your world view, and nothing else.

Nicely put.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:20 am)revivin Wrote:

(August 19, 2014 at 2:16 am)little_monkey Wrote: Nothing might never have existed. Therefore something never came out of nothing.

So something had to come out of something.

If something can't come from nothing, IE it must come from 'something' else, what did god make the universe from?
I don't mean "God made it" as an answer. I mean, what did the stuff of the universe come from?
He couldn't just have "spoke it" into existence because that would be something coming from nothing.


Oh, and PS..
That opening post reads an awful lot like another post on another forum, almost word for word.
I'll have to track that one down...

Since nature couldn't always have existed or start up from nothing, it needs a cause outside itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated by the uncreated Creator.

Oh, huh

(August 19, 2014 at 2:19 pm)revivin Wrote: Since nature couldn't always have existed or start up from nothing, it needs a cause outside itself, outside of time and space, being uncreated by the uncreated Creator.

Oh boy.. never heard that one before.

Everyone knows this.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:29 pm)revivin Wrote: Everyone knows this.

That there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his profit?

(August 19, 2014 at 2:30 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: That there is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his profit?

You know Allah is not God because you can't come along six centuries later and say Jesus didn't die on the cross with no evidence.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:19 pm)revivin Wrote: Since nature couldn't always have existed or start up from nothing

Bullshit. How do you know? Do you know all there is to know about nature?

(August 19, 2014 at 2:19 pm)revivin Wrote: , it needs a cause outside itself, outside of time and space,

Bullshit. Cause is an artifact of time. Outside time, there is no cause. So if the cause is said to be outside time, then it is another way of saying the cause didn't cause it.

So brilliant, you just said nature must be caused by that which did not cause it.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:19 pm)revivin Wrote: being uncreated by the uncreated Creator.

How do you know the cause, which you just said didn't cause anything, is itself us caused?