(August 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm)Drich Wrote: When we ask seek and knock we receive the proof of God in the Holy Spirit as per Luke 11.

Except when we don't receive that "proof", or when we receive a similar "proof" from other gods (even, amusingly, other "christian" gods).

I think that the lot of you are talking to yourselves, personally - but that's not really my problem. You have a problem with your claim. It never rises beyond the status of an assertion, and you are -unwilling to- or -incapable of- being consistent with the form of the claim as soon as someone tells you they tried it, and it didn't work, or that they knocked on the door and Krishna answered. You simply reassert. It wasn't compelling or well thought out the first go round, no amount of repetition is going to change that.

If you're a man on a mission, you need to be relieved of duty.

(August 19, 2014 at 2:53 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Well Dirch I think I have managed to come to a conclusion. Please bare in mind I'm not a great intelligence. I have not made any great discoveries, published any works or invented anything profound. I'm a poor speller as I often lack attention to detail. My understanding of things may be simple to you but I do try to understand.

You said you preformed this 'knocking' business and it resulted in spiritual gifts.

Part of this gift or perhaps because of it or simply the success of the 'knocking' was that:

i have a brother?

(August 13, 2014 at 2:05 am)Drich Wrote: What I feel as a believer that I did not before is a greater capacity for love, contentment, peace and joy.

Quote:This is part of the proof, to yourself, that the 'knocking' worked and god is with you and believable.

Ok I get that.

You also said that this is a quest or mission. Of instruction? I think we can infer it is an instruction in your belief system which you believe sincerely because of the success of the 'knocking' and the result of that success.

What I can't reconcile is that somebody with a self professed “greater capacity for love” on a quest or mission of instruction could behave as you do when performing that instruction.

Then perhaps you do not have a full understanding of the word love.

Quote:I, in my very limited experience, have not encountered a teacher who belittled or made sport of their students as an instrument of their instruction. I don't believe this is taught to new teachers, quite the opposite in fact.

not a follower of the work of Christ huh?
(Or paul.)
(Or Mr. Miyagi)

Mat 23 is where the 8 woes of the pharisees are found. In each instance Christ begins his correction with "Woe to you pharisees and makers of the law, you hypocrites." To say this once to those who thought themselves to be most holy was an afront worthy of a stoning death. To say this 8 times and give a legitmate hypocritical examples where the pharisees where indeed being hypocritical was an object learning lesson in not only what he was point out, but in humility. Christ freely and often chopped down the self righteous.
(Something you are finding out i enjoy as well)

Another example was when peter was called out on to the stormy water and began to drown. Christ could have just saved him, but he didnt. What does he say? "Oh, ye of little faith, why are you afraid?"

Christ knew why he was afraid but decided to call him on it any way. Why? Because it is our fall from pride that we are most able to hear wisdom found in the truth, as our broken foolishness is generally the contrast that brings the truth to light.

I observe before i speak. Granted i sometimes over step, but i do indeed carefully weigh what it is i say. I use humor and sometimes harsh words to break down, but i also use the word of God to build back up.

This is the difference between what you were trying to describe in the section i am speak to, and how forced humility can be used a tool to teach.

Quote:So I don't see how that would follow from your previous conviction. I would expect that somebody with your capacities would always strive to be calm, measured and kind if not always successful.

Was Christ?
(Remember the whip he used to chase the money changers out of the temple?)

Temperance has its place as does agression. Wisdom is the balance of the two.

Or are you just projecting a perceived role for one in the church to play so that the one who plays that role is easier to manage?
Your closing statement suggests this was your intent.
(Read the following in your best forrest gump voice.)
"
I may not be a smart man, but i know what manipulation is."

Quote:So I guess my argument is an ad hominem. In that your actions do not bare out your convictions.

The days if not months of my life i have spent here and places like this looking up greek and hebrew words, building arguements i know maybe one out of ten will read and fewer yet seek to understand is the only testament to my convictions needed.
Lol what makes you think i need to check myself against what the new guys has to say of thinks of me?

Quote: So I reject your convictions because they don't seem to carry enough weight with yourself to strive to act on them.

-or maybe you do not understand them as witnessed by your meet and greet post you placed in the new member section.

Did you say you have no knoweledge of christianity, and yet it seems you have enough 'knoweledge' to close your mind to and dismiss without serious consideration the one person who is willing to go the extra mile with you here. The one person who has shown your repeatedly the very thing you claim to be here about.

It would seem you are the one not here for your stated reason after all. You are just looking for an easy mark to practice you hatetheism on.. Just fyi if a member of this web site claims christianity as their faith openly, an d they have been here more than a year then you should probably work on those "thinking skills" before you challenge them.

Quote:That is just the way it's come across to me. My apologize if I've missed some greater point but I had trouble getting past this conundrum of what you've become with the holy spirit and how you act when sharing that experience. Like I said I'm no great thinker.

Have you considered that you simply do not understand who or what the Holy Spirit is?
It seems you did not understand the nature and teaching styles of Christ Himself, which are recorded. How is it you have a full grasp of who the Holy Spirit is if you can not claim the Gifts?

If you are in all sincerity not a custom to thinking, then perhaps you should be a student of observation. That is the beginning of all great thinkers. The first rule of observation is to remain silent and simply watch, unless if by your silence you are doing greater harm than if you were to speak. In this determination to speak from a vow of observation is the beginning of wisdom.

Quote: To know God is not apart of your imagination is much like the experience of knowing that anyother person of you life is not imaginary. Their is direct and constant input that often times opposes your own ideas and values.

The existence of other people can be confirmed objectively by hard evidence. What you have here is anything but hard (insert sexual joke here).

What I mean by this, is you have undeniable sensory evidence of the other person; that kind of evidence that can be verified by a third party: you know, *real* evidence. ASKing and its results are all in your mind.

Trippy Drippy Wrote:do you have an example? What is offered in luke 11 is spelled in plain english.

Luke 11 Wrote:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So it's not vague eh?

Forgive my ignorance but is it correct to say that the teaching you employ is the same method as that of Christ himself and these other fellows of the bible?

Quote:Christ freely and often chopped down the self righteous. (Something you are finding out i enjoy as well)

Great. Now my irony meter broke and I've got mercury and glass shards all over the floor. Who's gonna clean up this mess?

(August 19, 2014 at 3:21 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But..I thought the Holy Spirit is God. How can he be proof for himself if he is the claim in the first place?

What if i believed col. Sanders was not real? I know there is a ton of documentation that the col. was real. But what better proof of the col. Than the col. himself?

What better proof of God than God Himself?

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(August 19, 2014 at 3:35 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 19, 2014 at 3:20 pm)Drich Wrote: When we ask seek and knock we receive the proof of God in the Holy Spirit as per Luke 11.

Except when we don't receive that "proof", or when we receive a similar "proof" from other gods (even, amusingly, other "christian" gods).

I think that the lot of you are talking to yourselves, personally - but that's not really my problem. You have a problem with your claim. It never rises beyond the status of an assertion, and you are -unwilling to- or -incapable of- being consistent with the form of the claim as soon as someone tells you they tried it, and it didn't work, or that they knocked on the door and Krishna answered. You simply reassert. It wasn't compelling or well thought out the first go round, no amount of repetition is going to change that.

If you're a man on a mission, you need to be relieved of duty.

Again, we point back to the parable of the wise and foolish builders. If your view or understanding was corrupt then God will not support it. Which again is why it is so important we continue to knock.

If we have a corrupt view, then when the storms of life come, we will abandon this view. If we continue to knock we will begin to build an accurate view of God resulting in a relationship with the holy Spirit.

The problem is that your looking for God to fit your understanding your logic.. What if God is just a little bit bigger than your system of logic will allow? Will you be able to find Him using it?

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(August 19, 2014 at 6:26 pm)oukoida Wrote:

Quote: To know God is not apart of your imagination is much like the experience of knowing that anyother person of you life is not imaginary. Their is direct and constant input that often times opposes your own ideas and values.

The existence of other people can be confirmed objectively by hard evidence. What you have here is anything but hard (insert sexual joke here).

What I mean by this, is you have undeniable sensory evidence of the other person; that kind of evidence that can be verified by a third party: you know, *real* evidence. ASKing and its results are all in your mind.

Trippy Drippy Wrote:do you have an example? What is offered in luke 11 is spelled in plain english.

Luke 11 Wrote:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So it's not vague eh?

Keep reading...

(August 19, 2014 at 11:23 am)Drich Wrote:

(August 19, 2014 at 11:06 am)Chuck Wrote: Acting smug is the tool he uses to avoid confronting either his own stupidity, or the inability of his creed to help him disguise his stupidity from his fellow men.

It's the classical Christianity. Throw a bunch of idiotic shit, than chant victory while sidling off the stage. The difference with drippy is he is even more stupid than usual and doesn't know when to sidle off the stage.

Then Maybe you could point out an instance or two

Thanks, Here is one:

(August 19, 2014 at 11:23 am)Drich Wrote:

Then Maybe you could point out an instance or two

Now kindly illustrate my point again.

(August 19, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Goosebump Wrote: Forgive my ignorance but is it correct to say that the teaching you employ is the same method as that of Christ himself and these other fellows of the bible?

Christ and paul are of the bible mr. Miaygi is from the karate kid. The real one not the will smith crapped up one.

I'm sorry I must have misstated my question. Are the methods of instruction in the bible used by Christ the same methods you employ?

Quote:The Holy Spirit is the proof of God.

It's proof of your departure from reality.