(August 21, 2014 at 6:51 am)Stimbo Wrote: His track record doesn't leave much doubt.

Well if he refuses to respond then I'll known a truth of him. Regardless a lesson I've learned first hand is better then one I've learned through hearsay.

(August 21, 2014 at 1:50 am)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Mr. Dritch,

I'm sorry if I persist on a matter you feel satisfied.

Don't apologize to Drippy...he'll take it as a sign of weakness. If you think he is insufferable now that would only make him worse.

A monkey in its cage aping human insolence is not insufferable. It is pitiable.

(August 21, 2014 at 1:14 am)Goosebump Wrote: Mr. Dritch,

I'm sorry if I persist on a matter you feel satisfied. It is likely my ignorance in the matters of the bible and Christianity. Or I equally apologize if I've simply equated your absents to my question with your already abundant time consumption. But I'm afraid, once more deeply sorry for your time, I've not understood.

Are the methods by you which you teach, instruct, the same as those used, employed, by Christ in the bible?

Again sorry for my misunderstanding. I only seek understanding from you.

I gave two or three example where Christ has used beratement as a teach tool in my initial assertion. where is your confusion? Do you need more examples?

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(August 21, 2014 at 2:34 am)Goosebump Wrote: I've asked a sincere question and I think he (Drich) has the integrity to provide me with a sincere answer. I'm happy to ask again if my question was miss understood the first time.

I should not place the burden of doubt on him understanding my question. Rather I should strive to make it more clear so he can better answer it. i'm sure he will in due time.

I thank you both for your advice and concern.

I am simply confused as to the nature of your question. You asked many question in your first big post. all of which I took the time to answer. This one specific question I even provided you with biblical examples of the 'non christian' tactic being used by Christ.

Why did you ignore everything else said for something that I have already demonstrated?

Are you familiar with a Simulacrum? It is a very interesting phenomena that humans will do in order to believe in something. An item or idea given a certain perceptual power will influence the brain in such a way, so that the brain will in fact perceive that item's power had influence on reality. Oddly, this can explain many of the "knocking" ideals as well as holy spirit experiences. Your brain simply in order to either A. deal with cognitive dissonance or B. justify a believe will manufacture the feel or develop the perception to satisfy the conditions of the Simulacrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacrum

(August 21, 2014 at 3:58 am)oukoida Wrote: It's not the quantity of sources that counts. It's the reliability of those.

Who is reliability established in your best estimation?

Quote:Even not counting the books he himself wrote, there is plenty of archeological evidence for the existence of Caesar.

You haven't really studied/looked into how ancient texts are acredited and compiled have you?

Quote:And while it's likely that a man called Jesus existed and was crucified, there's no way of knowing that the gospels are an accurate description of what he did.

actually their is. There are many supporting texts but the world dismisses them as 'religious/christian' texts because the agree with the gospels.

The book of Luke was one such text. He was not apart of the initial christian movement nor was he a jew. He was a third party historean who was sent to record what eye witnesses had to say about Christ. Which if you stop and think unless it was videoed that is how all history is recorded. (an eye witness testimony being written down by themselves or by a third party.)

There are many more manuscripts that also confirm Christ and the gospel accounts, but again because they do their considered religious texts and dismissed by people who do not want to acknoweledge Jesus as the Christ.

Eitherway to my orginal point their was proof of Jesus as their is recorded proof of col. Sanders.

Quote:Anyway, the point was not the existence of Jesus as much as your confirmation bias. Something that you haven't addressed on this whole thread. Even if you say the contrary. Because if you did in a rational way, we wouldn't be here asking you about it.

not true I have addressed this 1/2 a dozen times or more. you do not see it because you do not want to see it.

Drippy Wrote: i bet. Because verse 13 destroys your arguement. Christ very clearly tells us what we are asking for and what God is offering. But i guess you already know that huh?

(August 20, 2014 at 3:33 am)oukoida Wrote: Still looks like vague metaphors to me.
I already quoted that verse and nothing is more vague than that. You lying sack of shit.

Verse 13If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Lol, vague metaphore huh?

You lost a foolish arguement and cant admit it.. now tell me again who lacks integrity?

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(August 21, 2014 at 4:56 am)pocaracas Wrote: hmm...so it has to be in question form and with the appropriate quote to your text? damn, your rigid!

When you quote someone you are addressing that person's thoughts and ideas. As the original quote took the topic off track their was no reason to follow down a path that would derail the subject. Your subsequent commentary would even further derail the subject especially after the subject matter had already been addressed.

Quote:One would think you'd read everything someone writes in a thread you created and reply to whoever you feel you should.

I read the topical posts and ignore posts not addressed to me.
If you want to conspire and put to gether a plan of attack with a fellow atheist then what business of it is mine? Put together your best collabrative effort then bring your work to me.

Quote:You see, maybe it's my netiquette, but I consider the Original Poster of any given thread as a host at a meeting. Even if two persons in that meeting are talking to each other, you should listen to both of them and give your opinion, as long as it concerns the subject of the meeting... if not, then you should ask them to be quiet.

If that is what most of you do, then their is no wonder why so many threads start off in one direction and go off into so many others.

After 30 plus pages we are still on the subject of the OP. Why? because i do not bite at ever baited hook. I only address what I foresee as a topical revelant post that will allow the discussion to continue as planned.

Quote:Anyway, I see you're still not addressing the possibility that it's all in your head.
Oh, I must use a question, right then!
Q: Have you ever considered the possibility that the A/S/K methodology taps into a well known and easily exploitable mental state which exists in most of humanity's brains?

Keep reading that muliti post I did last night your answer is in there.

Quote:Doesn't it make you wonder why the same methodology can be applied to any religion? Or why it can be applied to any claim which a particular person cannot disprove? Or even why it can be applied to brainwashing?

One of my main points is that A/S/K is a methodology that we apply to anything we really want. the first 10 or so pages of this discussion centered around that fact.

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(August 21, 2014 at 5:26 am)Tonus Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 11:40 pm)Drich Wrote: Yep, by design. Otherwise only one of us need knock and the rest would have to believe.

That doesn't make sense. God cannot simultaneously want everyone to be saved, yet guarantee that few will be by deliberate action (or non-action) on his part.

What verse in the bible makes you think God wants everyone to be saved?

For me, if He did their would be no qualifiers at all.

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(August 21, 2014 at 5:39 am)Goosebump Wrote:

(August 21, 2014 at 3:58 am)oukoida Wrote: Tell you what mate, he hasn't.

Let's let him decide that. Benefit of the doubt.

that is mighty white of you.

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(August 21, 2014 at 8:58 am)bladevalant546 Wrote: Are you familiar with a Simulacrum? It is a very interesting phenomena that humans will do in order to believe in something. An item or idea given a certain perceptual power will influence the brain in such a way, so that the brain will in fact perceive that item's power had influence on reality. Oddly, this can explain many of the "knocking" ideals as well as holy spirit experiences. Your brain simply in order to either A. deal with cognitive dissonance or B. justify a believe will manufacture the feel or develop the perception to satisfy the conditions of the Simulacrum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacrum

Interesting. Can you apply this principle to any of the 'Spiritual gifts' that i have specifically mentioned in past threads?

Quote:Interesting. Can you apply this principle to any of the 'Spiritual gifts' that i have specifically mentioned in past threads?

Hmm, for fairness sake can you specify for me. I would be more than happy to answer that question.

(August 21, 2014 at 9:54 am)bladevalant546 Wrote:

Quote:Interesting. Can you apply this principle to any of the 'Spiritual gifts' that i have specifically mentioned in past threads?

Hmm, for fairness sake can you specify for me. I would be more than happy to answer that question.

heres a few
http://atheistforums.org/thread-13378.html

http://atheistforums.org/thread-11671-page-14.html
Post 135 about 1/2 down 'no matter the cost.'

http://atheistforums.org/thread-15622.html
At a glance this one would seem to be more in my head, but the revelations gleaned from this experience (Description experience of Hell/Judgement) was not known to me at the time. It was till after may years of study and answering questions that I found biblical support to what i had experienced.

These are all examples of external Spiritual gifts. So again, from the pov that these events happened just as described, tell me how they fall under your initial diagnosis?

Granted they are easy to dismiss from your side of the computer screen, but less so from mine. This type of 'proof' taylored specificly to your needs/Your Heart is what the holy Spirit offers. While others can dismiss you will go unswayed, because you know what you experienced is real as the day is long.

(August 21, 2014 at 7:38 am)Goosebump Wrote: Well if he refuses to respond then I'll known a truth of him. Regardless a lesson I've learned first hand is better then one I've learned through hearsay.

Knock yourself out. I'm simply trying to prepare you, since all his posts are on record. Hardly hearsay; and actually I rather resent the implication, truth be told.

(August 21, 2014 at 9:20 am)Drich Wrote: What verse in the bible makes you think God wants everyone to be saved?

For me, if He did their would be no qualifiers at all.

Wanting everyone to be saved does not mean that there would be no qualifiers. I just think that desiring that everyone find salvation, then making it so that few will (Matthew 7:14), is not sensible.

1 Tim 2:3,4 "This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

2 Peter 3:9 "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

In Ezekiel, there are a few verses where god states that he takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, preferring instead that they turn from that path and seek salvation.

[rant]You know what Drich? I've had enough of your condescending bullshit. You are going around mad loops of circular logic claiming that the object of your claim is essentially proof of itself. All the points one makes fly over your head or are answered in even more illogical and unfathomably dumb ways, or are plainly avoided.

You are the proverbial pigeon shitting on a chess board and then strutting around victorious. I don't give two shits about God, Jesus and the fucking Holy Spirit. They are in your head, not in reality. You have no way of proving otherwise. Others have written about them? Good, there's seven books about Harry Potter too, now take a fucking broom out of your arse and ride it to Hogwarts, dipshit. [/rant]



... But who am I kidding? I know that you would like me to say that. Your way of arguing has just that trollish feeling to it, that I can't help but feel I'm hitting a wall everytime you respond. Now, I will never know for sure whether you are a troll or not. But I'm not going to reiterate this farce. There is no point in arguing with you. There is no point even in insulting you. Your beliefs are set in stone, and the smug way you respond to everyone who challenges them goes to show just that. So long.