(August 21, 2014 at 8:30 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But..but guys...it's magic Godwater™

For a second I thought I was in a homeopathy thread.

(August 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm)snowtracks Wrote:

(August 17, 2014 at 7:54 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: If the flood was restricted to a relatively small area wouldn't that make the entire point of the story pointless?

no, confined to deprave humanity who were confined to a relatively small area. humans defined here have a spiritual dimension; bipedal primates do not. if they did, the flood would have been more encompassing.

So, just to make sure we're on the same page. We're excluding anything other than HSS. And we're limiting those "depraved" HSS just to the area in which you are (not)describing. So, the rest of the HSS spread around the globe at that time were a-ok (with god), and not depraved.....and thusly did not have to suffer through any flood?

Do I have that about right?

(also, are you saying that if those other bipedal primates had souls the flood would have been bigger? Why? There are, in your scenario - other HSS, with spirit, that the flood didn't touch. Clearly, the "spiritual dimension" doesn't have much to do with this proposed event)

Still wondering about the finer points of floating zoo construction with hand choppers, btw.

(August 21, 2014 at 12:14 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm)snowtracks Wrote: no, confined to deprave humanity who were confined to a relatively small area. humans defined here have a spiritual dimension; bipedal primates do not. if they did, the flood would have been more encompassing.

So, just to make sure we're on the same page. We're excluding anything other than HSS. And we're limiting those "depraved" HSS just to the area in which you are (not)describing. So, the rest of the HSS spread around the globe at that time were a-ok (with god), and not depraved.....and thusly did not have to suffer through any flood?

Do I have that about right?

(also, are you saying that if those other bipedal primates had souls the flood would have been bigger? Why? There are, in your scenario - other HSS, with spirit, that the flood didn't touch. Clearly, the "spiritual dimension" doesn't have much to do with this proposed event)

Still wondering about the finer points of floating zoo construction with hand choppers, btw.

Don't worry- I have a ready made answer for you supplied by Darren Aronofsky.

Rock monsters.

That is all.

(August 21, 2014 at 5:06 am)downbeatplumb Wrote:

(August 20, 2014 at 10:56 pm)snowtracks Wrote: no, confined to deprave humanity who were confined to a relatively small area. humans defined here have a spiritual dimension; bipedal primates do not. if they did, the flood would have been more encompassing.

Then why gather all the animals to the ark, couldn't "god" have nudged them to a non-flooded area before the flood. he could even have told Noah where the non-flooded bits were and got him to go there without having to denude a forrest and ransack the area for all the relevant food.
Not one part of the Ark story holds up to even a small amount of prodding it is just STUPID from start to finish.

one reason would be an ark being build in the middle of a desert plain that receive little rainfall would command attention. God always gives ample warning of impeding judgment delivered by His spokesperson, a prophet that delivers a message that offers rescue to those who will repent. A distinguished patriarch working on a 100 year project would certainly gather crowds to hear that message. the text says the ark was build with 'gopher wood' (this type of wood is unidentified today) but we do know that certain hardwoods can match the tensile strength of some metals at least by weight. the ark itself only had to be build to float like a barge since it didn't have any particular destination.
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today the warning is that the book of life at the great white throng judgment will be open, and those names not written therein (appears that every person name was originally written there but names are expunged upon death) will face judgment, but here again, God offers rescue to those that want it.

(August 23, 2014 at 2:06 am)snowtracks Wrote: one reason would be an ark being build in the middle of a desert plain that receive little rainfall would command attention. God always gives ample warning of impeding judgment delivered by His spokesperson, a prophet that delivers a message that offers rescue to those who will repent. A distinguished patriarch working on a 100 year project would certainly gather crowds to hear that message.

That message being... what, exactly? "God is going to kill you all, but not me and my family!"? What message do those marked for death need to hear?

You haven't thought this through at all, have you?

Quote: the text says the ark was build with 'gopher wood' (this type of wood is unidentified today) but we do know that certain hardwoods can match the tensile strength of some metals at least by weight. the ark itself only had to be build to float like a barge since it didn't have any particular destination.

It is physically impossible that the ark, made at the dimensions listed in the bible, would have stayed afloat for long. In the entire history of seagoing vessels, the largest boats ever constructed of wood- and these are smaller than the ark, by the way- sank due to the constant flexing of the purely wooden hull. In fact, after a certain size the flexing meant that the entire boat needs to be constantly bailed out, and even then it sank in the end, with a full crew doing that. This apologetic is bullshit.

And incidentally, if the ark had no ability to steer, then why would Noah bother sending doves out to search for land? It wouldn't matter; he could be ten feet away from dry land and just float the fuck on by.

(August 23, 2014 at 2:06 am)snowtracks Wrote:

(August 21, 2014 at 5:06 am)downbeatplumb Wrote: Then why gather all the animals to the ark, couldn't "god" have nudged them to a non-flooded area before the flood. he could even have told Noah where the non-flooded bits were and got him to go there without having to denude a forrest and ransack the area for all the relevant food.
Not one part of the Ark story holds up to even a small amount of prodding it is just STUPID from start to finish.

one reason would be an ark being build in the middle of a desert plain that receive little rainfall would command attention. God always gives ample warning of impeding judgment delivered by His spokesperson, a prophet that delivers a message that offers rescue to those who will repent. A distinguished patriarch working on a 100 year project would certainly gather crowds to hear that message. the text says the ark was build with 'gopher wood' (this type of wood is unidentified today) but we do know that certain hardwoods can match the tensile strength of some metals at least by weight. the ark itself only had to be build to float like a barge since it didn't have any particular destination.
-----------------------------
today the warning is that the book of life at the great white throng judgment will be open, and those names not written therein (appears that every person name was originally written there but names are expunged upon death) will face judgment, but here again, God offers rescue to those that want it.

It is really funny that you believe all of this.

(August 23, 2014 at 4:06 am)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: It is really funny that you believe all of this.

I don't think that he does. I think he's got the one main belief that's full of holes, i.e "the bible is all completely true," and everything else he's saying is little more than patchwork to repair that contradictory mess of a story. And he'll keep adding more and more patches, but since he's not very smart he's not paying attention to see if any of it is actually consistent with the original hole, or even with the other patches, and so he's ended up with this ridiculous, shambling Frankenstein story that only makes sense to Snowy because he doesn't give a shit about the patches beyond the legitimacy he thinks they give to his actual belief that the bible is true.

Snowtracks apologetics, like all apologetics, aren't made because the person claiming them believes any of it, but to silence dissent by keeping the core belief out of the reach of critics and the obvious contradictions and unrealistic suppositions inherent in the bible.

(August 23, 2014 at 2:06 am)snowtracks Wrote: God always gives ample warning of impeding judgment delivered by His spokesperson,

A week, wasn't it? Or am I thinking of Evan Almighty..?

Regardless, why bother with a deadline at all? It's not as if "God" was warning of some imminent disaster beyond its control. "God" supposedly was pulling all the strings the whole time and could just as easily have waited until the ark project was completed and stocked before wiping out all life.

(August 23, 2014 at 2:06 am)snowtracks Wrote: the text says the ark was build with 'gopher wood' (this type of wood is unidentified today) but we do know that certain hardwoods can match the tensile strength of some metals at least by weight.

If we don't know anything about the wood supposedly used, beyond the name, speculating about its properties is nothing more than fanfap. You might as well say it was magic and have just as much foundation. However, since you're trying to shoehorn scientific principles into a mythology that relies on miracles to bail itself out, let's see how far you get before you do resort to magic.

(August 23, 2014 at 2:06 am)snowtracks Wrote: today the warning is that the book of life at the great white throng judgment will be open, and those names not written therein (appears that every person name was originally written there but names are expunged upon death) will face judgment, but here again, God offers rescue to those that want it.

Why did you bother with this paragraph? Threats and intimidation won't make something true. Only reality can do that. Do you think Stephen Hawking threatens the Royal Society with burning down the building if they don't take his work seriously?

Grow up.

(August 23, 2014 at 6:46 am)Stimbo Wrote: Threats and intimidation won't make something true. Only reality can do that. Do you think Stephen Hawking threatens the Royal Society with burning down the building if they don't take his work seriously?

Grow up.

That might be something though. If we can get the entire scientific community to talk for one day like the religious establishment talks every single day, maybe that might demonstrate to them how ridiculous they sound.

(August 23, 2014 at 6:46 am)Stimbo Wrote: Regardless, why bother with a deadline at all? It's not as if "God" was warning of some imminent disaster beyond its control. "God" supposedly was pulling all the strings the whole time and could just as easily have waited until the ark project was completed and stocked before wiping out all life.

It's a good thing that he was god, otherwise he might have wrongly estimated how long it would take a group of 400-500 year-olds to build the world's biggest wooden boat, and load tens of thousands of animals onto it.