Oh good! Stat's back! We were starting to run low on straw men. Whew!

(August 27, 2014 at 5:40 pm)Kitanetos Wrote: The Twilight characters do not exist and yet we can hate them as the characters they represent. It is common practice to love or hate fictional characters. Loving or hating them does not allude to their existence in reality, however, because the average reasonable individual knows how to differentiate between reality and fiction.

What is the name for the philosophical position that the Twilight characters do not exist? Where are the hundreds of books defending this position and the hatred for these characters? Where are the conventions concerning their non-existence? Where are the online communities? Where are the documentaries ridiculing them? Atheists’ behavior indicates that they know there is an existential difference between God and Edward.

(August 27, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Baqal Wrote: Or...
"I do not believe that God exists... and if He would exist, I'd hate Him".
So, yeah. This is a conditional example.

Nobody expresses it as such though. “If God Existed, He’d Not Be Great” By Christopher Hitchens. I missed that one.

(August 27, 2014 at 5:43 pm)Tobie Wrote: 1) Atheists as a whole do not claim to "know" god doesn't exist. A subset do, but the majority (at least on here) don't.

Then they’d be agnostics, not atheists.

Quote: 2) I, an atheist, do not harbour any hate for any god. Counterexample disproves your claim.

So you claim, color me skeptical.

Quote: Sounds like you are mixing up "hating god" and hating the idea of a god (in the examples you wrote, the judeo-christian god) - in the Dawkins quote, he says "most unpleasant character in all of fiction".

…and yet he does not write an entire book dedicated to any other fictional character. That’s the point, what he says he believes does not conform to his behavior. If I tell you that I believe climate change is going to cause Florida to be submerged under water and then I buy a beach front house in Florida you’re going to question whether I really believe what I claim to believe.

Quote:

Prove they don't exist.

Easy.

P1 Only Yahweh Exists
P2 [Insert other god’s name] is not Yahweh
C. Therefore, [insert other god’s name] does not exist.

(August 27, 2014 at 5:46 pm)Losty Wrote: Lol. Evidence to prove that I do not hate God?
I am myself. I know how I feel. What kind of evidence should I provide? 0.o

Behavior that is consistent with your claimed believes would go a long ways.

(August 27, 2014 at 5:52 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Oh good! Stat's back! We were starting to run low on straw men. Whew!

Gotta hold you all accountable.

According to some I am very well behaved

But seriously, what exact behavior do you need from me to prove that I do not hate god?

Quote:Nobody expresses it as such though. “If God Existed, He’d Not Be Great” By Christopher Hitchens. I missed that one.

Doesn't make as good a title. Hitchens probably cared more about selling books than making sure pedants like yourself couldn't make a really terrible strawman.

Quote:Then they’d be agnostics, not atheists.

Nope. Still atheists, just agnostic or weak atheists.

Quote:So you claim, color me skeptical.

Good for you. You want to tell me that I hate god, go find some evidence.

Quote:Easy.

P1 Only Yahweh Exists
P2 [Insert other god’s name] is not Yahweh
C. Therefore, [insert other god’s name] does not exist.

It's unfortunate for you that logic doesn't work that way. Circular reasoning is invalid.

(August 27, 2014 at 5:35 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Exactly, I am pointing out the fact that atheists engage in contradictory behavior. They claim that they know that God does not exist but then exercise hatred for Him. Are you saying it’s not possible for atheists to behave in a manner that is contradictory? Why not?

Very few atheists claim to know that a god or gods do not exist.

I don't hate Yahweh, I simply disbelieve he exists. I hate what those that believe he exists do in the name of this god, though.

And that what Hitchens is talking about.

That’s not the actual philosophical definition of atheism by the way.

Quote:The evidence speaks for itself.

What evidence? That atheists do not like what is done in the world in the name of various gods?

Guilty.

Evidence that we hate gods that most likely don't exist? Nope.

Quote:Nope, and that’s exactly my point. Atheists know that the Biblical God exists. Hitchens did not write a book called, “Ahura-Mazda Is Not Great” for a reason.

He has chapters on Eastern religions, Islam is mentioned as much as Christianity, the Koran is mentioned just as much as the Bible.

Quote:I do not call those gods names, or create threads dedicated to how horrible and mean they are, I’ve never read a book that disparages them, I’ve never partaken in a “blasphemy challenge” pertaining to them, I’ve never stolen their holy books from hotels, I’ve never desecrated their imagery, nor have I ever ridiculed them. You know why? Because I know they do not exist, so why waste my time? How many atheists can say the same about the Biblical God? Very few.

First of all, most atheists posting on the internet are almost exclusively encountering Christians, not Zoroastrians or Hindus.

The Bibles in hotel rooms are supposed to be taken.

Quote: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Sounds like, “God does not exist…and I hate Him” to me.

No, he is just pointing out how the Biblical 'Yahweh' character is portrayed in the stories.

By the way, you do know that 'God' is not the name of the Biblical god, right?

God is a job title, not a name.

(August 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: What is the name for the philosophical position that the Twilight characters do not exist?

It is called reality.

(August 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Where are the hundreds of books defending this position and the hatred for these characters? Where are the conventions concerning their non-existence? Where are the online communities? Where are the documentaries ridiculing them?

You clearly have not been searching hard enough. Google is as much a tool as your brain. Use both.

(August 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(August 27, 2014 at 5:43 pm)Tobie Wrote: 1) Atheists as a whole do not claim to "know" god doesn't exist. A subset do, but the majority (at least on here) don't.

Then they’d be agnostics, not atheists.

Are you new? This subject has been done to death. A/theism has to do with belief; A/gnostic has to do with knowledge. They are not mutually exclusive.

Also, I've had about enough of you telling people what they (dis)believe.

(August 27, 2014 at 6:25 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: What is the name for the philosophical position that the Twilight characters do not exist? Where are the hundreds of books defending this position and the hatred for these characters? Where are the conventions concerning their non-existence? Where are the online communities? Where are the documentaries ridiculing them? Atheists’ behavior indicates that they know there is an existential difference between God and Edward.

If people formed a religion around these characters, gained power and tried to get laws passed, started wars, persecuted minorities, etc based on them, you can bet there would be an outcry.

Quote:Nobody expresses it as such though. “If God Existed, He’d Not Be Great” By Christopher Hitchens. I missed that one.

Looks like you also don't understand rhetoric and hyperbole, too.

Quote:Then they’d be agnostics, not atheists.

Agnosticism and atheism are not mutually exclusive positions. Most atheists are agnostic.

Quote:..and yet he does not write an entire book dedicated to any other fictional character.

Yes he does. He talks abut Hinduism and Islam in his book.

Quote:That’s the point, what he says he believes does not conform to his behavior. If I tell you that I believe climate change is going to cause Florida to be submerged under water and then I buy a beach front house in Florida you’re going to question whether I really believe what I claim to believe.

He's not talking about 'God' in the book, he's talking about what the followers of various gods do in their names.

Quote:
Easy.

P1 Only Yahweh Exists
P2 [Insert other god’s name] is not Yahweh
C. Therefore, [insert other god’s name] does not exist.

Massively and laughably fallacious.

Quote:Behavior that is consistent with your claimed believes would go a long ways.

Speaking out against the actions of various theists is not the same as hating the god they believe exists.

(August 21, 2014 at 4:30 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote:

(August 21, 2014 at 4:11 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: There's nothing to hate.

That’s the entire point in my signature! “The two tenets of atheism: God does not exist…..and I hate Him.” Atheists love to claim that they know God does not exist but then they proceed to spend countless hours and posts talking about how much they hate him and how he’s a big meanie face. It’s really quite amusing. Nobody else behaves that way with anything else they “know” does not exist.

The issue isn't that we detest your god. It's that you get folks coming 'round and preaching about him even when they're not invited. Sort of like a Christian coming to an atheist forum in order to taunt the members there, when you think about it. I mean, you'd think if they really believed in an omnipotent god, they'd let him work his will as he sees fit.

I don't hate god, but the assholes who worship him sure get on my fucking nerves sometimes.

In other words, it's about the social aspects of religion, not the epistemology of it. Just as Christians advise "don't hate the sinner, hate the sin," so atheists don't hate the god, but sure in the fuck are annoyed by the self-righteous pricks who aren't satisfied with believing for themselves, but must press it upon others.

Hope that helps. If it doesn't, feel free to ask for clarification.

---

(August 27, 2014 at 5:35 pm)Statler Waldorf Wrote: Nope, and that’s exactly my point. Atheists know that the Biblical God exists. Hitchens did not write a book called, “Ahura-Mazda Is Not Great” for a reason.

Nonsense. The reason why Hitch wrote that book, which you'd know if you had actually read it rrather than having been spoon-fed your view, is encapsulated in the subtitle: How Religion Poisons Everything.

Take pride that your god is first among the targets, only because the largest number of fools ascribe belief in him.

That does not, however, confer reality onto him. It only means that he is the biggest sham.

Enjoy.

Um is it just me or has the thread gotten drunk and stoned and wandered into some stranger's back yard?