(September 15, 2014 at 1:59 pm)Celestine Wrote: The fall of education has nothing to do with religion, a stupid population is much easier to control than an intelligent one.

Uh, yes it fucking does: just currently there's some controversy over textbooks in Texas that contain known falsehoods made to lionize christianity, and you can just go ahead and google the "Wedge document" to see the lengths christian fundies will go to to disrupt science class in order to spread their dogma. Yet again, you're just wrong, which makes me wonder if you bothered to actually do any research yourself.

Quote:The difference between a murderer and a religious person is that one harms someone and the other doesn't.

Without getting too far into details, tell that to my fiancee. She's a member of the forum, you literally can. But then, hearing what she has to say, what a number of other people on this board have to say, might upset your little apple cart, eh?

Once again, I've just got lofty, sweeping generalizations from you, and actual lived evidence of the contrary from other people. Wonder what I should believe?

Quote: If a person is a murderer their religion should not be attached to them even if they claim they took such measures for their religion. The mindset of a murderer is different than a non-murderer they are deluded people and regardless of their beliefs they must face the consequences of their actions, atheist or theist.

Wow, I've never seen a person give a No True Every Possible Religion fallacy before. Good job.

You do know that many religions, christianity and islam specifically, literally order its followers to murder people, right?

Quote:Your fiancee and other atheists proved it to themselves, and were likely already unsure about their beliefs. The change from theism to atheism is a gradual one from my experience. Faith based queries come before evidence based ones.

Thank you for dismissing the personal journeys of people you've never met, out of hand, simply because they disagree with your presuppositions. If you're not a fundamentalist theist, you'd make a great one.

Oh, by the way, where's your condemnation of the religious? It's seems really weird to me, the way you'll bitch out atheists for saying "you're wrong" to theists, but you'll bend over backwards to preserve the theists from being grouped in with the people who say we atheists deserve to be killed, tortured forever, etc. Not a very consistent stance you've got here.

This was clearly a productive and insightful thread that proposed new concepts and ways of thinking that I hadn't considered before. I wish all threads could be like this.

(September 15, 2014 at 2:13 pm)Celestine Wrote: ...a fool is easily taken advantage of.

(excerpt)

May I see your wallet for a moment please?

Quote:Humans will do evil regardless of religion.

True, but to pose a now (in)famous challenge. Can you think of some moral good that only the religious may commit/accomplish? Can you think of some moral evil that only the religious may commit/accomplish?

Which one of those two questions did you answer in your mind immediately, and which one are you still searching for an example of?

Quote:Uh, yes it fucking does: just currently there's some controversy over textbooks in Texas that contain known falsehoods made to lionize christianity, and you can just go ahead and google the "Wedge document" to see the lengths christian fundies will go to to disrupt science class in order to spread their dogma. Yet again, you're just wrong, which makes me wonder if you bothered to actually do any research yourself.

Without getting too far into details, tell that to my fiancee. She's a member of the forum, you literally can. But then, hearing what she has to say, what a number of other people on this board have to say, might upset your little apple cart, eh?

Once again, I've just got lofty, sweeping generalizations from you, and actual lived evidence of the contrary from other people. Wonder what I should believe?

Wow, I've never seen a person give a No True Every Possible Religion fallacy before. Good job.

You do know that many religions, christianity and islam specifically, literally order its followers to murder people, right?

Thank you for dismissing the personal journeys of people you've never met, out of hand, simply because they disagree with your presuppositions. If you're not a fundamentalist theist, you'd make a great one.

Oh, by the way, where's your condemnation of the religious? It's seems really weird to me, the way you'll bitch out atheists for saying "you're wrong" to theists, but you'll bend over backwards to preserve the theists from being grouped in with the people who say we atheists deserve to be killed, tortured forever, etc. Not a very consistent stance you've got here.

Ha! A known falsehood! Yes religion should be kept out of public schools, that I can agree with you, but your government does a much better job at indoctrination than religion ever could hope to do! After all the government makes those textbooks and puts their own falsehoods that they present as truths in them. If only you knew how much of the things in your history books were false and not more than mere propaganda!

In the Old Testament one of the ten commandments is thou shalt not kill, I don't ever remember reading anywhere Jesus telling to kill the unbelievers, and in Islam it only permits it when the people are attacking and killing Muslims or when another person unjustly kills another. At least from what I've read of the Quran so far.

Perhaps if you wouldn't ill treat them so much they wouldn't say you need to be killed? I think you fail to understand how much some atheists insult religion and the followers of religion. Granted I am not condemning religion, I have no reason to. I know what ails the world and it is not religion, I am seeking to guide you on the right path for you to find out the true source of suffering. I could tell you, I could give you all the evidence in the world, I've tried it many times before. Like religious people many atheists have faith, faith in their dominions, and no matter how much evidence I presented to them they would not believe. They... all of them... rejected the evidence like creationists reject evolution, the atheists I debated with held on to their faith.

I know now that I can not simply tell people, for they would never believe me. It tore me asunder to know that atheists whom I long believed were intellectual rational beings were just like the followers of religion whom I had been 'fighting' against for so long. Now I only have one mission in life, to promote peace and equality among the many clans of humanity, and to end the corruption that is rife in the dominions. To do that I need to learn how to change you, how to make you look at the REAL problem.

There is also a call to genocide in the OT. Is that not killing? You know the folks that swung the sword were actually punished because they didn't -complete- said genocide thoroughly enough for OT god, right? Lesson being, when god tells you to off a motherfucker you do it once, and altogether. No half assed killing in the name of the lord - or your neck is the next one the axe will fall upon.
(murder, btw, is the distinction that most make there, thou shalt not murder...OT god is awash in the blood of those that have been killed, and gloriously so, clearly it doesn't take issue with -killing-)

(September 15, 2014 at 2:46 pm)Celestine Wrote: Ha! A known falsehood! Yes religion should be kept out of public schools, that I can agree with you, but your government does a much better job at indoctrination than religion ever could hope to do! After all the government makes those textbooks and puts their own falsehoods that they present as truths in them. If only you knew how much of the things in your history books were false and not more than mere propaganda!

For some reason I read that in his voice...


No but for reals, you're completely fucking off base.

(September 15, 2014 at 2:46 pm)Celestine Wrote: To do that I need to learn how to change you, how to make you look at the REAL problem.

Oh I think we're looking at it, Celestine.

Consider this, you're looking at it wrong. You've already insinuated that we are using force (undefined) and that we're trying to change people's faith and make them deconvert.

Yet can you point to a single example in this thread where someone has said/done that?

I think you might be wearing these in your view of religion: