Thanks for the advice, I going to start a tally soon once I can get a handle on my emotions.

(September 16, 2014 at 10:53 am)bladevalant546 Wrote: It is just me or why is life in the US just getting harder and harder. I feel as if life is just on struggle to the next, with the advent of medical help being expensive to everything else being expensive, is there anyone else here just tired of surviving?

It's not you. It's the natural result of the billionaire scumbags who run this country fucking you over for the last 34 years while they get richer and richer.

Time to break out the pitchforks and guillotines!!!!!!

I know two people who used Dave Ramsey's book The Total Money Makeover to get out of trouble and they're doing pretty darn good now. I read through it and it makes sense, but I never put it into action--I tell you this because I want you to factor in that this is a second-hand recommendation of sorts. Couldn't hurt looking into it.

On the emotional side, I'm right there with you. It's just my daughter and myself in a little ranch house on 5 acres and ends are just barely meeting every month.

The thing that really chaps my ass here in 'Murcia is the lack of education we receive on managing money. At some point during or after highschool it's sink or swim. The rules that applied to my parents generation do not apply to mine. I always heard: "The value on a house only goes up!" So in 2006 I bought my first house....two years before 2008 happened. Still recovering from that.

(September 16, 2014 at 10:53 am)bladevalant546 Wrote: It is just me or why is life in the US just getting harder and harder. I feel as if life is just on struggle to the next, with the advent of medical help being expensive to everything else being expensive, is there anyone else here just tired of surviving?

I run a small business of about 15 other employees. I fondly remember the 90s as "the days of flowing milk and honey".

Back then, as long as you worked hard and did your job, you made sure everything went out on time and the quality was consistent, you were assured of growing your business every year, from word-of-mouth from your satisfied customers alone. You take care of your customers, they take care of you. Or so I thought was the arrangement.

All that ended last decade. Competition from China devastated my business. One department was cut in half. The shrinking middle class reduced demand, and so I found myself competing for China for a slice of the shrunken pie.

During the 90s, I lived under my means and took the money I had saved to buy out my condo where I was living, at a cost of $277K, so that I owned it free-and-clear. I thought it was a "safe" investment. I even poured more money into it over the years, I estimate another 30-50K, with quite a few upgrades, like lighting, a renovated kitchen and crown molding. It was my pride and joy.

Then some very bad people on Wall Street crashed the real-estate market, hitting the condo market especially hard. I couldn't sell the condo at any price. My pride and joy quickly turned into "my personal toxic asset".

I was in sore need for money as my business had hit hard times, my wife's health had collapsed (depleting my retirement savings) and even though I had an asset I couldn't sell, I still had to pay property taxes and maintenance fees. My credit cards were maxed out and we were living hand-to-mouth. Banks would laugh at you if you tried to use real estate as collateral. "Oh, you own it free and clear? That's nice. What else ya got?"

I was also supporting my in-laws. They live in my basement of our home. They lives fell apart when my father-in-law lost his job when it was shipped overseas and his health collapsed. They lost their house because of the mortgage crisis.

Finally, I had a buyer for my $277K condo for a price of $169K. It fell through. Why? Seems Fanny and Freddy came out with a new rule: if the condo is more than 20% of the total association, like my brownstone converted old house into 5 condos was, it can't be financed. Period. No really, period. Association is in great financial shape? Fuck you, no mortgage. The buyer has plenty of collateral? Fuck you, no mortgage. Got a huge down payment? Fuck you, no mortgage.

I needed to find a cash buyer for my toxic asset. I could rent it for a tiny pittance to college kids and hope they didn't wreck the place. The first tenants didn't. The second tenants did.

Meanwhile, keeping the doors open at my business was a daily struggle. It was like flying a failing jet plane and occasionally scrapping the tops of the trees. Somehow, I always managed to rob Peter to pay Paul. The stress was high and the hours were long and on more than a few occasions I ran into too much month at the end of the money. At one low point, I had the experience of buying groceries and finding my credit card was unexpectantly maxed out. I had the humiliation of having to un-ring enough items where I could pay for the groceries with the cash in my pocket.

Any wonder I came down with a severe case of anxiety depression? My self-esteem had taken a beating. I was entrusted with a multi-generational family business and it all came close to crashing down on my watch. Some businessman I was. I was feeling like a failure. I was also feeling some anger and betrayal, since I worked my ass off and played by the rules but still had nothing to show for it.

FINALLY, I found a cash buyer for my toxic asset. It took five years but it finally sold at only slightly more than a 100K loss, plus all the money I'd sunk into upgrades plus all the credit card interest I'd hemorrhaged out over the years. I don't even want to think of what the final figure was for the total loss I absorbed.

My finances are looking better these days. It's not great but least I don't seem to be one paycheck away from bankruptcy anymore. Still, I have nothing saved for retirement and nothing to fall back on if the economy collapses again.

And I'm lucky. I have a job, a roof over my head and food on the table. I have health insurance so my wife's health care needs were only ruinously expensive instead of unattainable. She could have wound up being one of the statistics of Americans who die for want of health care. I could have wound up like my in-laws and live in someone else's basement but I managed to avoid bankruptcy. I also have a good wife who helped pull me out of the abyss of depression and push me to get the help I needed.

Others have endured far worse crashes than I have.

I just wish there weren't so many deluded Americans who keep voting Republican.

(September 16, 2014 at 2:34 pm)Exian Wrote: I know two people who used Dave Ramsey's book The Total Money Makeover to get out of trouble and they're doing pretty darn good now.

I haven't read it, but it's on my reading list at some point.

I bet he recommends the one thing I failed to mention in my last post: avoid consumer debt like the plague. It's perfectly OK to borrow to purchase a home or a car if you need to, but avoid credit whenever you can. Carrying balances on revolving accounts (e.g. credit cards) will destroy your finances.

(September 16, 2014 at 2:34 pm)Exian Wrote: The thing that really chaps my ass here in 'Murcia is the lack of education we receive on managing money. At some point during or after highschool it's sink or swim. The rules that applied to my parents generation do not apply to mine. I always heard: "The value on a house only goes up!" So in 2006 I bought my first house....two years before 2008 happened. Still recovering from that.

What they neglected to tell you was that it's "over the long term", and that was true in your parent's generation, and their parent's. 2006-2008 is not long term. Between 2008 and 2010, according to the county tax assessor, I lost nearly $200K in value on the house my ex and son now inhabit (I bought it in 2003). Despite that, I've still got a modest rate of return (but fuck, I wish I would have sold in 2007).

Homes are a long-term investment. Pick any 20- or 30- year time frame in history since such records have been kept and you'll see that it's true. (The same is true of stocks, believe it or not, even accounting for the worst debacles like 1929 and 2000.) Conversely, people who buy real estate (or stocks) for short-term gains are taking huge risks.

You run a small machine shop Deist? My family lost alot as well, I skated by, people gotta eat. My mother and brother live in my basement, my in laws are in an RV lot on my property, and my sister, aunt and a close family friend live in my house in St. Petersburg. Fucking rough times man. We thought we were all doing pretty well. Now it's just me, my wife, and my grandfather trying to feed a little over a dozen people. Mind you, most of the people I just referenced are college educated (a mix of bachelors and masters)......and yet....of those drawing incomes only one has a degree (my wife). I can't keep it up for long, personally. Property taxes last year were only paid by shedding property (which is also my livelihood). I'm in the shitty position right now of having to bleed a stone somehow or hang my head and tell my sister (who has a son, fathers dead - hooah) that she needs to either come up here and crowd this place...or find someplace on her own - which she can't afford-.

(September 16, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(September 16, 2014 at 10:53 am)bladevalant546 Wrote: It is just me or why is life in the US just getting harder and harder. I feel as if life is just on struggle to the next, with the advent of medical help being expensive to everything else being expensive, is there anyone else here just tired of surviving?

It's not you. It's the natural result of the billionaire scumbags who run this country fucking you over for the last 34 years while they get richer and richer.

Time to break out the pitchforks and guillotines!!!!!!

And the guns?

The world economy works on permanent increases in value. Shareholders expect a guaranteed increase in profit. Fail at that and you sink. It's ridiculous and unsustainable.

(September 16, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Chas Wrote: And the guns?

You looking to buy a gun...I'll sell you firearms by weight........

(September 16, 2014 at 5:45 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: The world economy works on permanent increases in value.

No, greedy humans do.