(September 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: If religious people can believe that there's a timeless being, who popped out of nothing and existed forever, why is it so hard to understand the concept that the universe too might've just always been there? Why is it that the universe has to have something before it, but not their sky-daddy?

Because creation implies intent, which requires intelligence (or at least awareness). See, humans make things all the time, so to such a religious mindset things that humans didn't make - trees, birds, stars etc - yet clearly exist must have been made by 'someone' more powerful than we are. Based on 'might makes right', they then fall on their knees and shackle their intellect and morality to the worship of it. Which would be understandable, if such an entity was shown even to be probable or even necessary.

(September 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: Oh and lastly, the big bang in NOT a f*ckin explosion. Maybe the scientists should really change that term.

Blame Fred Hoyle for inadvertently popularising a term intended to ridicule the science.

(September 25, 2014 at 4:50 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: If religious people can believe that there's a timeless being, who popped out of nothing and existed forever, why is it so hard to understand the concept that the universe too might've just always been there? Why is it that the universe has to have something before it, but not their sky-daddy?

Oh and lastly, the big bang in NOT a f*ckin explosion. Maybe the scientists should really change that term.

Yeah, and its also a fuzzy thing. There is no well defined "the big bang" in the sense of an instantaneous event, which is always misleading to laypersons.
Possibly it wasn't even all that big (although it could be infinite).

Do you have an alternate name you like?

I'd just add that terms like "Big Bang" (in a scientific context; sorry, ladies) are not misleading to scientists in related fields. If there's any confusion, it's with the laymen who either don't understand it or profit from propogating confusion. Often both. It's rather like saying we should change our kudos system because the concept of giving someone a thumb up gives people the wrong impression of what goes on here.

So what exactly do you do with your thumbs? Just to avoid "misunderstanding"

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(September 25, 2014 at 5:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'd just add that terms like "Big Bang" (in a scientific context; sorry, ladies) are not misleading to scientists in related fields

Exactly, everyone who deals with it knows what's meant

(September 25, 2014 at 2:37 pm)Hmza. Wrote: No one says the universe came from nothing.

Then what do you say? Where did the universe come from?

Universe came from whence universe came. We have a shot of finding out what that is. You who think it came from god do not.

(September 25, 2014 at 5:34 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I'd just add that terms like "Big Bang" (in a scientific context; sorry, ladies) are not misleading to scientists in related fields. If there's any confusion, it's with the laymen who either don't understand it or profit from propogating confusion. Often both. It's rather like saying we should change our kudos system because the concept of giving someone a thumb up gives people the wrong impression of what goes on here.

It is worthwhile to make a term change when anyone who comes in contact with the term for the first time mistakes it for something else. That is why they should stick to making names from latin or other such languages which nobody understands. That way even if someone wants to misunderstand that term, they will at least have to look up the definition of that term.

PS: Why would the kudos give someone a wrong impression? Thumbs up is always used a symbol of agreeing with someone, and it's not like we are using picture of boners.

(September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: That is why they should stick to making names from latin or other such languages which nobody understands. That way even if someone wants to misunderstand that term, they will at least have to look up the definition of that term.

But saying "Caboomus Magnus" instead of "Big Bang" does not make one sound learned. It makes one sound like Marvin the Martian.

(September 25, 2014 at 5:54 pm)Chuck Wrote: But saying "Caboomus Magnus" instead of "Big Bang" does not make one sound learned.

Neither does saying "Big Bang"....



Ah suddenly I am remembering "chitty chitty bang bang" for some unknown reason...

(September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: It is worthwhile to make a term change when anyone who comes in contact with the term for the first time mistakes it for something else.

Anyone encountering the term for the first time who is actually interested in the subject won't be put off by the nomenclature. I don't think scientists should be blamed for the misconceptions of laymen.

(September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: That is why they should stick to making names from latin or other such languages which nobody understands.

You think that's the reason Latin and Greek are used by scientists? To create confusion?

(September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: That way even if someone wants to misunderstand that term, they will at least have to look up the definition of that term.

They can still do that regardless of the language used.

(September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote: PS: Why would the kudos give someone a wrong impression? Thumbs up is always used a symbol of agreeing with someone, and it's not like we are using picture of boners.

I was being deliberately mischievous for the purpose of analogy. I apologise if I obscured my point (cue choruses of "that's what she said" in 3... 2... 1...)

(September 25, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Aoi Magi Wrote:

(September 25, 2014 at 5:54 pm)Chuck Wrote: But saying "Caboomus Magnus" instead of "Big Bang" does not make one sound learned.

Neither does saying "Big Bang"....

As I said earlier, the term Big Bang was coined by astronomer and Steady State proponent Sir Fred Hoyle in an attempt to ridicule the new science. It's no different to creationists saying "evilution", apart from their not being scientists. The phrase caught the public imagination and the rest is history. Well, cosmology.