(October 3, 2014 at 6:27 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

Uhem.

Can you descibe the meaning of Pi?

(Yes, you can look it up)

Great, Huggy, but that didn't answer the proposition put before you.

I'm not the one who needs a remedial math lesson, incidentally.

I'll give you a further hint: the "golden ratio" you've been going on and on about ad nauseum is an irrational number.

Quote:The number π is a mathematical constant, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter

Math is fun, indeed. Especially when you get it right, which mathisfun.com doesn't.

(October 3, 2014 at 7:03 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

Quote:The number π is a mathematical constant, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter

Math is fun, indeed. Especially when you get it right, which mathisfun.com doesn't.

I guess wikipedia gets it wrong too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Quote:The number π is a mathematical constant, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, approximately equal to 3.14159. It has been represented by the Greek letter "π" since the mid-18th century though it is also sometimes spelled out as "pi" (/paɪ/).

Being an irrational number, π cannot be expressed exactly as a common fraction, although fractions such as 22/7 and other rational numbers are commonly used to approximate π.

(October 3, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 3, 2014 at 7:03 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Math is fun, indeed. Especially when you get it right, which mathisfun.com doesn't.

I guess wikipedia gets it wrong too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

Quote:The number π is a mathematical constant, the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, approximately equal to 3.14159. It has been represented by the Greek letter "π" since the mid-18th century though it is also sometimes spelled out as "pi" (/paɪ/).

Being an irrational number, π cannot be expressed exactly as a common fraction, although fractions such as 22/7 and other rational numbers are commonly used to approximate π.

What I quoted came from the first sentence of that same article. The issue is not whether it can be represented as a simple fraction (it can't) but whether it is a ratio (it is).

Pi is irrational. The golden ratio is irrational. Both are ratios.

You're wrong, and so is your source. Seriously, this is 6th grade stuff at best.

(October 3, 2014 at 7:31 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(October 3, 2014 at 7:27 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: I guess wikipedia gets it wrong too?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

What I quoted came from the first sentence of that same article. The issue is not whether it can be represented as a simple fraction (it can't) but whether it is a ratio (it is).

Pi is irrational. The golden ratio is irrational. Both are ratios.

You're wrong, and so is your source. Seriously, this is 6th grade stuff at best.

Pi and PHI are not ratios in the mathematical sense because ratio means rational number and they are not rational numbers, but because they both are used in geometry, they are called ratios because they are referencing the proportions of whatever shape, hence the golden ratio is aka as the divine proportion.

also how did mathsisfun get it wrong?
http://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/pi.html

Quote:Pi (the symbol is the Greek letter π) is:
The ratio of the Circumference
to the Diameter
of a Circle.

(October 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 3, 2014 at 7:31 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: What I quoted came from the first sentence of that same article. The issue is not whether it can be represented as a simple fraction (it can't) but whether it is a ratio (it is).

Pi is irrational. The golden ratio is irrational. Both are ratios.

You're wrong, and so is your source. Seriously, this is 6th grade stuff at best.

Pi and PHI are not ratios in the mathematical sense because ratio means rational number and they are not rational numbers, but because they both are used in geometry, they are called ratios because they are referencing the proportions of whatever shape, hence the golden ratio is aka as the divine proportion.

Mind if I try to sum up?


On the left corner, the golden ratio, phi, is a number found in many natural structures, specially spirals. Such widespread incidence of this quantity is then viewed as a hint to the existence of some underlying cause for everything.

On the right corner, the widespread incidence of this quantity is viewed as a simple geometric quantity, much like the number pi, or the exponential. There are various numbers which pop up in several places... many unrelated... but the underlying physics may be related.

Will you guys shut up about defining what a ratio is?!
Next, you'll be up in arms about what a number is, huh?
And then, you'll discuss the intricacies of writing numbers in the decimal system.... and how finely tuned the decimal system is, huh?


"Where did the Universe come from?"
The question is malformed, given that "where" relates to a place and we're only aware of the existence of places within the Universe.
As such, the question cannot be answered.
That is, ultimately, why "atheistic origin science has no answer".
Anyone claiming to have an answer is wrong.
Anyone claiming to have an answer is lying.
Anyone claiming to have an answer would do well to learn a few things, before spewing nonsense on to the world.

Sadly, many claim to have not just an answer, but THE answer... and crowds follow those lying cons.
This is the grand reason for which fora like this on exist. To have a corner of sanity in the world, open 24/7, available to anyone with an internet connection.
Please, stop polluting it.

(October 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Pi and PHI are not ratios in the mathematical sense because ratio means rational number and they are not rational numbers, but because they both are used in geometry, they are called ratios because they are referencing the proportions of whatever shape, hence the golden ratio is aka as the divine proportion.

You are fundamentally wrong. A ratio is comparing two similiar things. A distance vs another distance in our case.

I'll use short simple sentences and maybe you'll understand.

The distance between repeating twist in DNA is 34 A. You also claimed 34 A. We agree on that. The diameter of DNA is 23.7 A. You claim it was 21 A. We disagree here. With your numbers, you get the ratio 34 A vs 21 A. So you claim the fibonacci sequence is in DNA. The actual ratio is 34 A vs 23.7 A. This is not the follow fibonacci sequence. Therefore, your claim is wrong!

(October 3, 2014 at 8:01 pm)Surgenator Wrote:

(October 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: Pi and PHI are not ratios in the mathematical sense because ratio means rational number and they are not rational numbers, but because they both are used in geometry, they are called ratios because they are referencing the proportions of whatever shape, hence the golden ratio is aka as the divine proportion.

You are fundamentally wrong. A ratio is comparing two similiar things. A distance vs another distance in our case.

exactly, as in "the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter", answer me this, where else is Pi used other than in relation to circles or spheres?

(October 3, 2014 at 8:01 pm)Surgenator Wrote: I'll use short simple sentences and maybe you'll understand.

The distance between repeating twist in DNA is 34 A. You also claimed 34 A. We agree on that. The diameter of DNA is 23.7 A. You claim it was 21 A. We disagree here. With your numbers, you get the ratio 34 A vs 21 A. So you claim the fibonacci sequence is in DNA. The actual ratio is 34 A vs 23.7 A. This is not the follow fibonacci sequence. Therefore, your claim is wrong!

you are correct! that is not the fibonacci sequence, the fibonacci sequence is a sequence of numbers ( 1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55)

What you're talking about is the golden ratio (1.61) 34 divided by 21 = 1.61

you cant take the length and width and call it a ratio, that is the dimensions.

Take the earth for example, the circumference is 40,075 km and diameter is 12,742 km, the ratio of these two numbers are not 40,075 vs 12,742, it is 3.14 therefore "34 A vs 23.7 A." is not a ratio.