He has trouble with one dimension, much less three.

i'm new here and I would like to propose a solution to the age-old argument of a God creating the universe and everything in it.
It should be obvious to any rational person that no bearded old man in heaven created the universe. The concept of any man-made deity creating heaven and earth, stars and planets, suns and black holes cannot be proved or even imagined by an educated and observant mind. The problem is; no one can disprove this belief either.
It is also difficult or impossible to believe the universe was created by chance. How does one reconcile the order in the universe, orbiting, spin, time, gravity, force vectors, the four fundamental forces, the laws of physics and numbers, and life itself to a huge accumulation of coincidences?
All evidence observed indicates a well ordered system of forces, particles, energy, and physical laws that govern the existence and activity of our universe.
It appears that the universe was created by an intelligent force. If the formation of the universe was a random event, why does the universe behave within rigid restrictions? Why does it not destroy itself? Why has it existed for 14.5 billion years?
What is a rational argument against intelligent design of the universe? Where is the proof that it functions in random chaos? If it did, we would not be here and neither would the universe.
What are the conclusions to these observations?
1. There is no God in Heaven with angels and harps.
2. An intelligent designer created all things in the universe.
3. The intelligent designer is a supernatural force that we do not understand.

(October 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Restan Wrote: i'm new here and I would like to propose a solution to the age-old argument of a God creating the universe and everything in it.
It should be obvious to any rational person that no bearded old man in heaven created the universe. The concept of any man-made deity creating heaven and earth, stars and planets, suns and black holes cannot be proved or even imagined by an educated and observant mind. The problem is; no one can disprove this belief either.
It is also difficult or impossible to believe the universe was created by chance. How does one reconcile the order in the universe, orbiting, spin, time, gravity, force vectors, the four fundamental forces, the laws of physics and numbers, and life itself to a huge accumulation of coincidences?
All evidence observed indicates a well ordered system of forces, particles, energy, and physical laws that govern the existence and activity of our universe.
It appears that the universe was created by an intelligent force. If the formation of the universe was a random event, why does the universe behave within rigid restrictions? Why does it not destroy itself? Why has it existed for 14.5 billion years?
What is a rational argument against intelligent design of the universe? Where is the proof that it functions in random chaos? If it did, we would not be here and neither would the universe.
What are the conclusions to these observations?
1. There is no God in Heaven with angels and harps.
2. An intelligent designer created all things in the universe.
3. The intelligent designer is a supernatural force that we do not understand.

N..no...that's.. like 80% of that is wrong. There is no scientific theory that said the universe was "created" by chance, or "created" at all. The only order present in the universe is the order that we perceive and codify based on our pattern-seeking nature as evolved mammals. The universe has only a handful of 'rigid restrictions', there are plenty of areas of the universe that act in ways that are so bizarre we don't know what the fuck is going on. The universe is heading towards inevitable heat death, so it's not like it's fine-tuned for anything but that.

Not even close.

Kind of appropriate, though, that as we approach page 200, someone decides to start the thread all over again.

It's just one long-ass argument from ignorance. Or as I like to call it, argumentum ad puga, "arguing out of your ass".

(October 6, 2014 at 3:07 pm)Huggy74 Wrote:

(October 6, 2014 at 3:01 pm)Crossless1 Wrote: It is a fraction. All instances of division are expressible as fractions.

except we've determined that you can't display a decimal point in a fraction, true or false?

You're the one who introduced the notion that the ratio 34/23.7 had to be a common fraction. It doesn't. That was a red herring introduced by you to avoid having to address the main question. And since a ratio is a dimensionless number (no units involved), 34/23.7 can be expressed as a fraction, 340/237. Whether everybody here is using exactly proper terminology is irrelevant to the main question raised as to whether Phi is expressed as a naturally occurring ratio in DNA. Your arguing about this side matter rather than addressing the main point just makes you look like a weasel.

(October 6, 2014 at 4:52 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(October 6, 2014 at 3:07 pm)Huggy74 Wrote: except we've determined that you can't display a decimal point in a fraction, true or false?

You're the one who introduced the notion that the ratio 34/23.7 had to be a common fraction. It doesn't. That was a red herring introduced by you to avoid having to address the main question. And since a ratio is a dimensionless number (no units involved), 34/23.7 can be expressed as a fraction, 340/237. Whether everybody here is using exactly proper terminology is irrelevant to the main question raised as to whether Phi is expressed as a naturally occurring ratio in DNA. Your arguing about this side matter rather than addressing the main point just makes you look like a weasel.

So, to summarize, what we have here is this:

(October 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Restan Wrote:

---

i'm new here and I would like to propose a solution to the age-old argument of a God creating the universe and everything in it.
It should be obvious to any rational person that no bearded old man in heaven created the universe. The concept of any man-made deity creating heaven and earth, stars and planets, suns and black holes cannot be proved or even imagined by an educated and observant mind. The problem is; no one can disprove this belief either.
It is also difficult or impossible to believe the universe was created by chance. How does one reconcile the order in the universe, orbiting, spin, time, gravity, force vectors, the four fundamental forces, the laws of physics and numbers, and life itself to a huge accumulation of coincidences?
All evidence observed indicates a well ordered system of forces, particles, energy, and physical laws that govern the existence and activity of our universe.
It appears that the universe was created by an intelligent force. If the formation of the universe was a random event, why does the universe behave within rigid restrictions? Why does it not destroy itself? Why has it existed for 14.5 billion years?
What is a rational argument against intelligent design of the universe? Where is the proof that it functions in random chaos? If it did, we would not be here and neither would the universe.
What are the conclusions to these observations?
1. There is no God in Heaven with angels and harps.
2. An intelligent designer created all things in the universe.
3. The intelligent designer is a supernatural force that we do not understand.

---

Hello! Let's for a moment forget that I don't buy your premise that there is a problem.
I completely fail to see how your intelligent designer hypothesis solves any of your alleged problems. It's way more complicated than a universe with just a handful of rules.

---

(October 6, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Tonus Wrote: Kind of appropriate, though, that as we approach page 200, someone decides to start the thread all over again.

Is argumentum ad infinitum an official logical fallacy?

(October 6, 2014 at 4:05 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(October 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Restan Wrote: i'm new here and I would like to propose a solution to the age-old argument of a God creating the universe and everything in it.
It should be obvious to any rational person that no bearded old man in heaven created the universe. The concept of any man-made deity creating heaven and earth, stars and planets, suns and black holes cannot be proved or even imagined by an educated and observant mind. The problem is; no one can disprove this belief either.
It is also difficult or impossible to believe the universe was created by chance. How does one reconcile the order in the universe, orbiting, spin, time, gravity, force vectors, the four fundamental forces, the laws of physics and numbers, and life itself to a huge accumulation of coincidences?
All evidence observed indicates a well ordered system of forces, particles, energy, and physical laws that govern the existence and activity of our universe.
It appears that the universe was created by an intelligent force. If the formation of the universe was a random event, why does the universe behave within rigid restrictions? Why does it not destroy itself? Why has it existed for 14.5 billion years?
What is a rational argument against intelligent design of the universe? Where is the proof that it functions in random chaos? If it did, we would not be here and neither would the universe.
What are the conclusions to these observations?
1. There is no God in Heaven with angels and harps.
2. An intelligent designer created all things in the universe.
3. The intelligent designer is a supernatural force that we do not understand.

N..no...that's.. like 80% of that is wrong. There is no scientific theory that said the universe was "created" by chance, or "created" at all. The only order present in the universe is the order that we perceive and codify based on our pattern-seeking nature as evolved mammals. The universe has only a handful of 'rigid restrictions', there are plenty of areas of the universe that act in ways that are so bizarre we don't know what the fuck is going on. The universe is heading towards inevitable heat death, so it's not like it's fine-tuned for anything but that.

Not even close.

Perhaps you can tell us how the universe came to be, if not created by some event or force, and how it has lasted over 14 billion years if it is not an ordered entity? if the universe is fine tuned for something, what force fine tuned it? If it is random, how can you know what will happen?

---

(October 6, 2014 at 6:03 pm)Alex K Wrote:

(October 6, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Restan Wrote:

---

i'm new here and I would like to propose a solution to the age-old argument of a God creating the universe and everything in it.
It should be obvious to any rational person that no bearded old man in heaven created the universe. The concept of any man-made deity creating heaven and earth, stars and planets, suns and black holes cannot be proved or even imagined by an educated and observant mind. The problem is; no one can disprove this belief either.
It is also difficult or impossible to believe the universe was created by chance. How does one reconcile the order in the universe, orbiting, spin, time, gravity, force vectors, the four fundamental forces, the laws of physics and numbers, and life itself to a huge accumulation of coincidences?
All evidence observed indicates a well ordered system of forces, particles, energy, and physical laws that govern the existence and activity of our universe.
It appears that the universe was created by an intelligent force. If the formation of the universe was a random event, why does the universe behave within rigid restrictions? Why does it not destroy itself? Why has it existed for 14.5 billion years?
What is a rational argument against intelligent design of the universe? Where is the proof that it functions in random chaos? If it did, we would not be here and neither would the universe.
What are the conclusions to these observations?
1. There is no God in Heaven with angels and harps.
2. An intelligent designer created all things in the universe.
3. The intelligent designer is a supernatural force that we do not understand.

---

Hello! Let's for a moment forget that I don't buy your premise that there is a problem.
I completely fail to see how your intelligent designer hypothesis solves any of your alleged problems. It's way more complicated than a universe with just a handful of rules.

---

(October 6, 2014 at 4:07 pm)Tonus Wrote: Kind of appropriate, though, that as we approach page 200, someone decides to start the thread all over again.

Is argumentum ad infinitum an official logical fallacy?

You cannot understand why the presence of of intelligent design would be the answer to all these observations of natural phenomena? Well then, I guess that concludes our conversation.

There was a conversation?