(October 6, 2014 at 6:37 am)Riketto Wrote: In the past i reach a stage in which i realized that i was not getting anywhere.
This usually is the crossroad that make you think about changing the way to proceed.
My understanding is that you still haven't reach that stage.

I did reach that stage. Like you, I don't think we can achieve peace of mind or happiness until we determine a purpose or goal, and set about planning to reach it. I think you underestimate just how 'programmable' the human mind is, or appreciate that happiness and peace of mind are mental states that we can achieve through a number of mechanisms.

I get the impression that your worldview depends on certain conditions being met to qualify a person for true happiness and emotional balance. So if someone says they have these things but are not proceeding as you expected, you don't believe them. My worldview is not dependent on that; if your spiritual and philosophical journey leads you to what you seek, then I'm happy for you. Your success does not diminish mine. I am not driven to think that you are fooling yourself or mistaken because I think your approach can work just as well as mine.

(October 6, 2014 at 8:35 am)Tonus Wrote: I don't think we can achieve peace of mind or happiness until we determine a purpose or goal, and set about planning to reach it. I think you underestimate just how 'programmable' the human mind is, or appreciate that happiness and peace of mind are mental states that we can achieve through a number of mechanisms.

Yes and not.
Not in my case.
When i was 22 i reach a stage in which i was sick of everything.
I had so many things but nothing makes me feel in peace with myself.
I had no plane of whatsoever but i was feeling that something or better say someone would change my life.
And this someone attract me to him in a far land to teach me how to find peace so it also can work without a plan.
Actually to learn under a competent teacher is much better than do it by ourself.
A teacher has already been there so you can avoid the holes on the road.

Quote:I get the impression that your worldview depends on certain conditions being met to qualify a person for true happiness and emotional balance. So if someone says they have these things but are not proceeding as you expected, you don't believe them. My worldview is not dependent on that; if your spiritual and philosophical journey leads you to what you seek, then I'm happy for you. Your success does not diminish mine. I am not driven to think that you are fooling yourself or mistaken because I think your approach can work just as well as mine.

My impression is that you think that you can do this journey by yourself without the help of someone who has been there before.
It is quite possible but in this way it will takes ages and ages.
Just imagine if you want to become a doctor without first go to school, uni and all the practical tuition.
Yes you still can do it but it will takes 3 or 4 lifetime to learn all by yourself.
The same apply to spirituality.

(October 7, 2014 at 10:23 am)Riketto Wrote: My impression is that you think that you can do this journey by yourself without the help of someone who has been there before.

As you admit in the following sentence, doing it by yourself is possible. Just not efficient. I was always a pretty optimistic and happy person in my life, doing it on my own. I have been learning from others the past few years, which has accelerated my progress in numerous areas. If there is something beyond what I have found and learned, and I never find it, but I am happy and at peace, then I think I made out pretty well.

(October 7, 2014 at 1:10 pm)Tonus Wrote:

(October 7, 2014 at 10:23 am)Riketto Wrote: My impression is that you think that you can do this journey by yourself without the help of someone who has been there before.

As you admit in the following sentence, doing it by yourself is possible. Just not efficient. I was always a pretty optimistic and happy person in my life, doing it on my own. I have been learning from others the past few years, which has accelerated my progress in numerous areas. If there is something beyond what I have found and learned, and I never find it, but I am happy and at peace, then I think I made out pretty well.

Let me see if i get it right.
Ok. it is possible to go alone even if this is not the best way to go as a teacher could explain you how to avoid the danger on the road but you got one more problem to deal with.
You put an obstacle to your journey in believing that God is not there.
It could not be there for you but what about if he is there and that is the final goal or finishing line?
In this case how can you get to this finishing line?
Would you change your opinion as you advance in your journey?
Wouldn't be better to leave all the options open just in case?

(October 7, 2014 at 10:23 am)Riketto Wrote: My impression is that you think that you can do this journey by yourself without the help of someone who has been there before.
It is quite possible but in this way it will takes ages and ages.
Just imagine if you want to become a doctor without first go to school, uni and all the practical tuition.
Yes you still can do it but it will takes 3 or 4 lifetime to learn all by yourself.
The same apply to spirituality.

Imagine that this spiritual master is just conveying what his own biases have provided him with.
Imagine that this master's master, or some other master higher up on the scale was just full of crap, but people liked that crap, and they wanted to be taught that crap... and, since it confirmed their biases and shortcomings, they accepted it and taught it to their pupils.
How can we, today, discern if the teachings of the master are real, or just fantasy, if these teachings keep agreeing with people's wishes?

(October 8, 2014 at 4:25 am)Riketto Wrote: You put an obstacle to your journey in believing that God is not there.

No, nothing like that. Believing in god doesn't provide any guidance, just a way to motivate yourself to action. But if the action you want to achieve isn't affected by belief in god, then belief in god becomes an obstacle.

Quote:Wouldn't be better to leave all the options open just in case?

Sure. If god reveals himself to me, then I will accept his existence. And if it turns out he has the guidance needed for me to be even more happy and successful, then I'll read his book or attend his seminars. Until then, if I manage to be happy and peaceful without god, I won't worry about it.

(October 8, 2014 at 4:25 am)Riketto Wrote: Wouldn't be better to leave all the options open just in case?

All the options, eh? What about the option that a pink invisible triceratops is God and punishes all those with eternal hellfire who do not wear a pink tutu and horns on all tuesdays?

You sure you want to leave all options open, or only those that nicely conform with you prejudice?

(October 8, 2014 at 6:04 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(October 7, 2014 at 10:23 am)Riketto Wrote: My impression is that you think that you can do this journey by yourself without the help of someone who has been there before.
It is quite possible but in this way it will takes ages and ages.
Just imagine if you want to become a doctor without first go to school, uni and all the practical tuition.
Yes you still can do it but it will takes 3 or 4 lifetime to learn all by yourself.
The same apply to spirituality.

Imagine that this spiritual master is just conveying what his own biases have provided him with.
Imagine that this master's master, or some other master higher up on the scale was just full of crap, but people liked that crap, and they wanted to be taught that crap... and, since it confirmed their biases and shortcomings, they accepted it and taught it to their pupils.
How can we, today, discern if the teachings of the master are real, or just fantasy, if these teachings keep agreeing with people's wishes?

Yoga started 7000 years ago.
After all this time people who follow yoga would have found out whether yoga is crap or it is beneficial.
The quality last for ever while the crap last only for a short period.
There are however exception to the rule here and there but not very many.

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(October 8, 2014 at 9:32 am)Alex K Wrote:

(October 8, 2014 at 4:25 am)Riketto Wrote: Wouldn't be better to leave all the options open just in case?

All the options, eh? What about the option that a pink invisible triceratops is God and punishes all those with eternal hellfire who do not wear a pink tutu and horns on all tuesdays? You sure you want to leave all options open, or only those that nicely conform with you prejudice?

The story that there is hell was started by religions not by spiritual minded people.
Why God would ever send his children to hell?
Would you send your children to hell for whatever reason?

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(October 8, 2014 at 6:38 am)Tonus Wrote:

(October 8, 2014 at 4:25 am)Riketto Wrote: You put an obstacle to your journey in believing that God is not there.

No, nothing like that. Believing in god doesn't provide any guidance, just a way to motivate yourself to action. But if the action you want to achieve isn't affected by belief in god, then belief in god becomes an obstacle

I am not talking whether God would providing you with any guidance at this stage of yours in which you still think in this way.
Eventually the guidance will come at a later stage in which you may establish a relationship with him.
I am saying instead to leave all options open just in case.
This does not involve the believing that God is there.

Quote:Wouldn't be better to leave all the options open just in case?

Quote:Sure. If god reveals himself to me, then I will accept his existence. And if it turns out he has the guidance needed for me to be even more happy and successful, then I'll read his book or attend his seminars. Until then, if I manage to be happy and peaceful without god, I won't worry about it

There is no way that God would reveals to people that believe that he does not exist so you will not perceive him ever.
The best way to go at your stage is to take it easy and believe that the unbelievable is sometime possible.

(October 9, 2014 at 6:43 am)Riketto Wrote: Yoga started 7000 years ago.
After all this time people who follow yoga would have found out whether yoga is crap or it is beneficial.
The quality last for ever while the crap last only for a short period.
There are however exception to the rule here and there but not very many.

There is absolutely no evidence that yoga started 7000 years ago.
Stop making shit up.

(October 9, 2014 at 6:43 am)Riketto Wrote:

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(October 8, 2014 at 9:32 am)Alex K Wrote: All the options, eh? What about the option that a pink invisible triceratops is God and punishes all those with eternal hellfire who do not wear a pink tutu and horns on all tuesdays? You sure you want to leave all options open, or only those that nicely conform with you prejudice?

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The story that there is hell was started by religions not by spiritual minded people.
Why God would ever send his children to hell?

Maybe because 'es evil?