(October 9, 2014 at 5:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(October 9, 2014 at 1:28 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Islam is Christianity on steroids.

It's more like Islam is a teenager. And Christianity is middle age.

More like Islam is a brutal thug, Christianity a Machiavelli.

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(October 9, 2014 at 5:09 pm)Lemonvariable72 Wrote:

(October 9, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Chuck Wrote: No, Christianity is Islam muzzled, but Christianity resents it and is bidding its time scheming to be unmuzzled. If Christianity is ever unmuzzled, it needn't break down your door, it is already in your house.

What I wonder is what makes you think Islam could not thrive in the developed west. Especially now since people have made Islam their sacred cow. Ironic given that the people that defend Islam here are basically next on the stoning list after atheists.

Islam is held as a sacred cow by some because its foot print, despite hysterics, is small. I have no doubt the west, even the supposedly enlightened herbovorous portions, is entirely capable not only of enlightened social rejection of Islam, but of resorts to brutal bloodthirsty xenophobia pogroms against Muslims in its midst should Islamic foot print really become big enough to be uncomfortable for a majority.

(October 9, 2014 at 5:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: It's more like Islam is a teenager. And Christianity is middle age.

When Christianity was young, as Islam is today, we called it "The Dark Ages".

I watched the exchange between Affleck and Harris several times, and I have yet to hear anything racist or bigoted from Harris. Criticizing ideas is not bigoted.

I love when Kristol makes Harris' point for him by listing a few Muslims that are heroic for speaking out against Islam extremism.

Not really, whilst it's true Christians were indeed very violent as a peoples around this stage in their.......... shall we say social evolution and reconciliation with the real world.
The founding documents are quite different, the acts of violence are very very different.

More to the point, it was a very bad interpretation of Christianity that allowed things like this to happen.
The bible was kept from the people precisely so they could be told anything was god's will and sent off to war/told to burn their daughters.

Not so much with Islam, quite the opposite. The more of this religions religious text a Muslim reads the more likely he is to be violent, intolerant, sexist etc.

For crying out loud, we are literally comparing a wondering pacifist hippy with a Genghis Khan here......... get over your aversion to noticing it.

The Quran is vague and is written in Classical Arabic using different rare words all through (I think he was trying to impress), the Hadiths on the other hand are way more explicitly violent and are written in what I'll call an easy to understand dialect.

And many believe that the Quran should be read in Arabic.

Edit: and check Quranism, it's the Muslim version of Sola Scriptura (it's still full of shit though)

(October 9, 2014 at 5:55 pm)DramaQueen Wrote: The Quran is vague and is written in Classical Arabic using different rare words all through (I think he was trying to impress), the Hadiths on the other hand are way more explicitly violent and are written in what I'll call an easy to understand dialect.

And many believe that the Quran should be read in Arabic.
(Check Quranism)

The Quran being vague just gives the hadiths more authority if that's your position, it's the primary key of sorts when ever there is doubt in the meaning of the Quran's text or which takes precedent.

Jesus can be used in the same way for the bible.

Which basically means the Quran is nothing like the bible.

EDIT; I would also add their is an actual recognised authority in many, if not all of the Christian splinter groups. In Islam it's the guy with the biggest gun, just like it was with Mohammed.
Sorta reminds me of the orc societal construct in lord of the rings lols

Has any branch of Muslim preached pacifism?

(October 9, 2014 at 6:26 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Has any branch of Muslim preached pacifism?

Yes. Sufism, Ahmadiyya sect, Mourides sect, etc.

Don't think producing a few pacifist sects that levitates in airy obliviousness above a sea of spilled blood is enough to make christianity somehow better than Islam.

In any case pacifism is easier to swallow when vast technological superiority had enabled you to already beaten everyone else to a pulp. Pacifism would seem rather less noble when you are being beaten into a pulp. Since 1700s Islam had been beaten into a pulp by the west. When seen in the larger picture, Islam is still in a pulpated state.

I think Ahmadis are pacifists but they aren't considered Muslims by other Muslims. They get get called Mulhidín sometimes which usually means atheists .

Also they are weirder and more new age-ish.

I think it was founded in the Punjab, India.

They also believe in more prophets in addition those of Abrahamic religions.
These are Krishna, the Buddha, Zoroaster and Confucius and the Mirza Ahmad.

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Ninjad

(October 9, 2014 at 6:26 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Has any branch of Muslim preached pacifism?

The idea behind the violence is that there is a "house of Islam" and a "house of war", or something to that effect.

Basically the house of war is where we live, by we, I mean all non-Muslims.
This is to continue until the final prophet arrives, he's down a well I think........... seriously, down a well.

There are a few sects that believe the prophet has already come, they are quickly murdered into obscurity by other Muslims. Very very small minority, they are considered apostates and blasphemers.

Indeed the only thing the Sunnis and Shi ites could untie on is that these guys, who are relatively peaceful, aren't Islamic and gotta die....... go figure.

But that being said, we don't really have a sufficient pool of these 'peaceful' groups to say they are peaceful. Many Muslim populations remain peaceful when they are in isolated pockets.

Baha'i Faith is also came from Islam

(October 9, 2014 at 5:42 pm)ForumMember77 Wrote:

(October 9, 2014 at 5:30 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: It's more like Islam is a teenager. And Christianity is middle age.

When Christianity was young, as Islam is today, we called it "The Dark Ages".

I watched the exchange between Affleck and Harris several times, and I have yet to hear anything racist or bigoted from Harris. Criticizing ideas is not bigoted.

I love when Kristol makes Harris' point for him by listing a few Muslims that are heroic for speaking out against Islam extremism.

Not really, whilst it's true Christians were indeed very violent as a peoples around this stage in their.......... shall we say social evolution and reconciliation with the real world.
The founding documents are quite different, the acts of violence are very very different.

More to the point, it was a very bad interpretation of Christianity that allowed things like this to happen.
The bible was kept from the people precisely so they could be told anything was god's will and sent off to war/told to burn their daughters.

Not so much with Islam, quite the opposite. The more of this religions religious text a Muslim reads the more likely he is to be violent, intolerant, sexist etc.

For crying out loud, we are literally comparing a wondering pacifist hippy with a Genghis Khan here......... get over your aversion to noticing it.

I agree with you to a certain extent.

Yet the Bible sill has explicit passages that condone: killing witches, killing those that believe in a different god, having slaves, wiping out the population of cities.

So, even if the authorities kept the Bible from the masses, they were still using passages in the Bible to carrying out their wishes.

And I do agree that there is a clearer path from the Koran to violence than the Bible, but the path still exists in the Bible.