(October 10, 2014 at 7:16 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote:Your straw men are weak. I said nothing of abortion. I revealed an atheist defense tactic.(October 10, 2014 at 7:10 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I'm learning the atheist trick of surround, ridicule, and then silence. Very tidy system, I must say. Extremely pathetic, but tidy none the less.
Atheism has nothing to do with abortion, if you honestly believe that then you are misguided and apply the same level of reason and evidence to this than you do with the abortion issue.
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Abortion not allowed
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  (October 10, 2014 at 6:56 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Jenny - thank you for your thoughtful response. I am speaking of a more ancient understanding of life and unity. Where I come from, all life is sacred, and has been so longer than man has existed to challenge it. There are many cultural traditions where all life is sacred. But that doesn't necessarily lead to prohibiting the taking of life, though it may. Janism which has roots all the way back to Protagoras does. I'm aware of some North American Indian traditions concerning the sacredness of life, but if there's such a tradition that's gone as far as vegetarianism and avoiding killing insects I don't know of it. But I'm willing to be educated. Unless, however not aborting a pregnancy is part of a larger mission not to kill any life at all, I'm not sure I get you.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
 RE: Abortion not allowed
October 10, 2014 at 7:20 pm
(This post was last modified: October 10, 2014 at 7:21 pm by Chas.)
(October 10, 2014 at 7:19 pm)ShaMan Wrote:(October 10, 2014 at 7:16 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Atheism has nothing to do with abortion, if you honestly believe that then you are misguided and apply the same level of reason and evidence to this than you do with the abortion issue.Your straw men are weak. I said nothing of abortion. I revealed an atheist defense tactic. The thread is about abortion, you silly twit. All you have revealed is your own irrationality.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method. 
I wish you guys would just stop this shit
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator  Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope? RE: Abortion not allowed
October 10, 2014 at 7:22 pm
(This post was last modified: October 10, 2014 at 7:23 pm by Bad Wolf.)
(October 10, 2014 at 7:18 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Insults and excusing me from the room - classic. This is a discussion board, and all opinions are welcome. Shall I begin bashing you now because I disagree with you? Yes all opinions are welcome, but not when they aren't defended. You aren't defending yours at all. You're just asserting again and again that you are right and we are wrong. (October 10, 2014 at 7:19 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Your straw men are weak. I said nothing of abortion. I revealed an atheist defense tactic. An atheist defence tactic? You really are fucking priceless. Pointing out your lack of reason and evidence and unwillingness to discuss and then telling you to leave as a result of this, is a defence tactic? Do you even live on the same planet as us?
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech (October 10, 2014 at 7:20 pm)Jenny A Wrote:I am pro-choice and anti-government interference. I am pro-being before I am either of those things. I am an advocate of life. We 21st Century Humans have decided we are the keepers of life and the creators of truth - we are not.(October 10, 2014 at 6:56 pm)ShaMan Wrote: Where I come from, all life is sacred, and has been so longer than man has existed to challenge it.There are many cultural traditions where all life is sacred. But that doesn't necessarily lead to prohibiting the taking of life, though it may.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Bad Wolf
Compulsive procrastinator Religious Views: Agnostic atheist, anti-theist, whovian, misanthrope? (October 10, 2014 at 7:25 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I am pro-choice and anti-government interference. I am pro-being before I am either of those things. So you aren't actually pro-choice? (October 10, 2014 at 7:25 pm)ShaMan Wrote: I am an advocate of life. We 21st Century Humans have decided we are the keepers of life and the creators of truth - we are not. Pathetic platitudes in the attempt to avoid the actual issue. How predictable.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House “Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom "If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech (October 10, 2014 at 7:22 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Yes all opinions are welcome, but not when they aren't defended. You aren't defending yours at all. You're just asserting again and again that you are right and we are wrong.Why must I defend what I believe if I don't ask others to believe it, and it does not harm anyone? I have not once said any of you are 'wrong' and I challenge you to present where I have, in so many words, said others are wrong. I have only stated my beliefs and I have not required that you share them, and yet, you require that I believe and behave as you do. Now tell me, who is actually calling someone 'wrong' here?
Abortion certainly is a atheist issue. Not because atheists necessarily are pro choice, but because most of us are. Most arguments against abortion stem from either: 1) prude anti sex ideas; 2) ideas about what god has to say about morality or both. For these purposes, invoking "the sacred" and "man has been told" (by whom?) simply reads as a variant of number 2 to me. Most pro choice arguments ask the question whose rights are most important and why?
Without some explanation for the sacred other than ever since the begining, I just can't accept an argument on that basis. It probably belongs in a different thread, but I do have some inborn sense of the sacred. It doesn't have to due with woo though, more with same process that gives us a sense of morality.
If there is a god, I want to believe that there is a god. If there is not a god, I want to believe that there is no god.
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