(October 10, 2014 at 9:16 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(October 10, 2014 at 8:10 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I believe you. I just find it odd. All was well for months on the forum. I liked him.

I liked him too, in both incarnations - but he left us no choice at all.

I searched FFF and I would agree. I'm sure you had no choice at all.

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So? Back to does fetus termination equals baby killing?

Lol yea, and whatever the heck an unborn child is.

(October 10, 2014 at 6:00 pm)C4RM5 Wrote: I have I have said I believe that everyone deserves a fair and equal chance, I have said I believe abortion is murder as you are preventing someone from living. How are these not arguements. I have said at 24 weeks a baby can survive birth.

Now that the drama-llama has come and gone (all the fun stuff happens when I'm asleep, apparently ) this is something I'd like to address.

Do you understand what an argument is, Carm? Here's the second definition of the word:

"a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory."

What you've given us so far hasn't been an argument, it's been a position. You've told us what you believe, when we're all asking you for why you believe it, and more importantly, whether you can support that belief with evidence and consistent definitions. So far, you've been content to simply repeat your beliefs, over and over, as though the simple fact that you have those beliefs is justification for both holding them, and enforcing them on everyone else.

It's not.

To be blunt, nobody cares that you believe. What matters is whether you can convincingly argue in support of your position, whether you can present evidence that shows that your position is correct and morally tenable.

What you're doing is shouting "it's murder!" every time someone tries to respond to you. Would you find it convincing if we only saw fit to respond to you with "nuh uh!"?

If not, why should we find it convincing when you do the same to us?

Yea actually I would prefer it if you responded with nuh uh because it is better than swearing at me and calling me a monster, but to be honest no one has provide factual information all you are doing is questioning me.

(October 11, 2014 at 4:43 am)C4RM5 Wrote: Yea actually I would prefer it if you responded with nuh uh because it is better than swearing at me and calling me a monster, but to be honest no one has provide factual information all you are doing is questioning me.

Are you serious? You don not actually answer ahy of those questions and many facts regarding human reproduction, including mechanisms, stages, and time lines have been described. For instance, not every fertilized egg results in pregnancy, not every pregnancy comes to term, a fetus doesn't have a brain or nervous system until at least 6 months of gestation.

And you haven't answered questions, as when I asked if you actually believed that rapes never result in pregnancy.

Try being honestly responsive.

I know that rapes lead to pregnancy but only 5% of them do.

Even if that were true, so what? Chas called you out on your claim that we haven't presented any facts to support our side.

(October 11, 2014 at 4:43 am)C4RM5 Wrote: Yea actually I would prefer it if you responded with nuh uh because it is better than swearing at me and calling me a monster, but to be honest no one has provide factual information all you are doing is questioning me.

I didn't swear at you or call you a monster, so I'm sort of at a loss why you would point that out to me in place of acknowledging or responding to the things I did tell you. You're remarkably evasive, given how strongly you seem to hold to your position.

As to factual information, to start with you're the one presenting this position that abortion is murder, so you have the burden of proof for establishing that, a burden that you've been fleeing from at top speed ever since page one. Just because we won't take your random, repeated claim as true on face value doesn't mean we need to refute it; you need to demonstrate it.

As it happens though, many of us have tried to refute it, and it's a trivially easy position to refute. A fetus has no nervous system or brain, they aren't alive in any sense that one could kill it as we understand the term, and this has been pointed out to you. You response is that a fetus becomes a living person later, and so therefore it is now, which is not only totally nonsensical (lots of things can become other things later, does that make them all the things they could potentially come right now? ) but also inconsistently enforced. If a fetus is a person because it becomes a person later, then why isn't a sperm also a person? Why isn't a person multiple people because later on they'll produce sperm which becomes another person? Both of those things fit what your definition, and yet I doubt you're clamoring to call masturbation genocide, right?

And if not, what is your justification for stopping this "it'll be a person later, therefore it is a person now!" line of reasoning at the zygote, but not the sperm or the father in potentia?

See, Carm? That is an argument. I didn't just say "I don't believe it is murder" and stop there, now did I?

Quote: I know that rapes lead to pregnancy but only 5% of them do.

I know a person who became pregnant via rape, and I must say that I find your glib, reductive attitude towards them immensely distasteful and offensive. It's disgusting.

(October 11, 2014 at 6:41 am)Bad Wolf Wrote: Even if that were true, so what? Chas called you out on your claim that we haven't presented any facts to support our side.

Sorry where were the facts that Chas presented along with their source.

(October 11, 2014 at 8:03 am)C4RM5 Wrote: Sorry where were the facts that Chas presented along with their source.

I'm sorry, what? We were talking about facts throughout the entire thread, not in one post.

And this is just great! You want sources?!? The facts that have been stated are basic biology which can be found in any text book. This stuff is proven, go and do your own bloody research before you get into a topic of which you know nothing about.