(October 13, 2014 at 7:41 am)genkaus Wrote: Start by establishing that any depictions of Shiva in a Lotus position are 7000 years old.
Then establish that that form of sitting down was regarded as the Lotus position 7000 years ago.

Any?
When i ever said that all representations of Shiva are 7000 years old?
Some may well be done during his life but most must have been done after his death which could be many many years after.
You never been interested in Shiva life and all of a sudden you pretend to tell people who study Shiva what Shiva was or was not doing.
Don't be ridiculous.
Have you ever been to Varanasi?
Just go there one day and see all the temples dedicated to Shiva and ask the people what Shiva was doing when he was sitting in the lotus position and why the lotus position and yoga meditation go hand in hand as you couldn't practice yoga meditation in any other position and find out how old is Varanasi and when these temples were build.
Study a bit first and then you may better understand how the system works.

I can sit full lotus. Have been able to since I was a little bitty Stimbo. Doesn't mean I'm doing yoga though, especially since I'm not.

I can walk around on my knees in that position as well, or on all fives. Sort of a party piece. Let's see Shiva do that .

(October 13, 2014 at 8:40 am)Riketto Wrote: Any?
When i ever said that all representations of Shiva are 7000 years old?
Some may well be done during his life but most must have been done after his death which could be many many years after.
You never been interested in Shiva life and all of a sudden you pretend to tell people who study Shiva what Shiva was or was not doing.
Don't be ridiculous.
Have you ever been to Varanasi?
Just go there one day and see all the temples dedicated to Shiva and ask the people what Shiva was doing when he was sitting in the lotus position and why the lotus position and yoga meditation go hand in hand as you couldn't practice yoga meditation in any other position and find out how old is Varanasi and when these temples were build.
Study a bit first and then you may better understand how the system works.

In order to prove that yoga is 7000 years old, you need to find representation of yogic practices from 7000 years ago - what's so difficult to understand.

Your speculation that Shiva practiced yoga 7000 years ago is not evidence.
Your statement that later depiction of Shiva show him practicing Yoga is not evidence.
The temples of Varanasi - none of which are older than 4000 years - are not evidence.

Your only course is to find a representation of Yoga that dates to 5000 BCE - it doesn't have to be of Shiva, but you seem hell-bent on it.

(October 13, 2014 at 8:54 am)genkaus Wrote:

(October 13, 2014 at 8:40 am)Riketto Wrote: Any?
When i ever said that all representations of Shiva are 7000 years old?
Some may well be done during his life but most must have been done after his death which could be many many years after.
You never been interested in Shiva life and all of a sudden you pretend to tell people who study Shiva what Shiva was or was not doing.
Don't be ridiculous.
Have you ever been to Varanasi?
Just go there one day and see all the temples dedicated to Shiva and ask the people what Shiva was doing when he was sitting in the lotus position and why the lotus position and yoga meditation go hand in hand as you couldn't practice yoga meditation in any other position and find out how old is Varanasi and when these temples were build.
Study a bit first and then you may better understand how the system works.

In order to prove that yoga is 7000 years old, you need to find representation of yogic practices from 7000 years ago - what's so difficult to understand.

Your speculation that Shiva practiced yoga 7000 years ago is not evidence.
Your statement that later depiction of Shiva show him practicing Yoga is not evidence.
The temples of Varanasi - none of which are older than 4000 years - are not evidence.

Your only course is to find a representation of Yoga that dates to 5000 BCE - it doesn't have to be of Shiva, but you seem hell-bent on it.

May i see your evidence that the temples in Varanasi are not older than 4000 years ago?

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(October 13, 2014 at 8:40 am)Stimbo Wrote: I can sit full lotus. Have been able to since I was a little bitty Stimbo. Doesn't mean I'm doing yoga though, especially since I'm not.

I can walk around on my knees in that position as well, or on all fives. Sort of a party piece. Let's see Shiva do that .

Things change overtime.
Some people still follow the yoga system as it suppose to be used.
Other people take a bit from here and a bit from there in order to please their own agenda.
I have seen people doing yoga posture lying on a surfboard.
Christians celebrate the mass.
Since when Christ celebrate the mass?
Old mates become new enemies and old enemies become c lose mates.
Idiots may become intelligent and intelligents people may become idiots so what you do may have nothing to do with what the lotus posture suppose to mean.

(October 13, 2014 at 9:38 am)Riketto Wrote: May i see your evidence that the temples in Varanasi are not older than 4000 years ago?

I'm actually older than this tomb you speak of. No really, what evidence do you have that I'm not that old? Pretty much settles it then.

(October 13, 2014 at 9:38 am)Riketto Wrote: May i see your evidence that the temples in Varanasi are not older than 4000 years ago?

Sure.
The earliest known archaeological evidence suggests that settlement around Varanasi in the Ganga valley (the seat of Vedic religion and philosophy) began in the 11th or 12th century BC.

Recent excavations at Aktha and Ramnagar, two sites very near to Varanasi, show them to be from 1800 BC, suggesting Varanasi started to be inhabited by that time too.

If the temples were older, then we'd have definite archeological evidence dating Varanasi to before these dates. But since these are the dates we have, it indicates the temples are not older.

Now, let's see some evidence for your 7000 year claim.

(October 13, 2014 at 12:37 pm)genkaus Wrote:

(October 13, 2014 at 9:38 am)Riketto Wrote: May i see your evidence that the temples in Varanasi are not older than 4000 years ago?

Sure.
The earliest known archaeological evidence suggests that settlement around Varanasi in the Ganga valley (the seat of Vedic religion and philosophy) began in the 11th or 12th century BC.

Recent excavations at Aktha and Ramnagar, two sites very near to Varanasi, show them to be from 1800 BC, suggesting Varanasi started to be inhabited by that time too.

If the temples were older, then we'd have definite archeological evidence dating Varanasi to before these dates. But since these are the dates we have, it indicates the temples are not older.
Now, let's see some evidence for your 7000 year claim.

Oh, man, you are more naive than i thought.
Years ago when i had a chat with my older brother (a tourist guide and expert in history) back in Italy about the origin of our city (Bologna) i was asking him how old Bologna was knowing already that was older than Rome.
He said to me......don't you know that well before this city exist there was the Villanova civilization and finding of that civilization have been found in many places even under the local market few streets from here.
Well well very interesting i said but more interesting is the fact that well before this civilization there were other civilization dating back even in prehistoric times ( 43,000 to 45,000 years ago).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Italy
Now genakus why don't you go to Varanasi and start digging under those temples to find out how many civilization existed before the one existing.
Forget for a moment what the expert who study the present civilization say and try to found out what is behind these present civilization.
You may be very surprised in finding out prehistoric civilization.
Coming back to whether Shiva and yoga date back 7000 years or not here there are one more evidence that convince me that it is the case.
The mantras or sound that goes along with the breath are coming from the sanskrit which is more that 7000 years old as well as the svastica which is the yoga symbol.
What more evidence i need?


http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.com.au/...ttery.html


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...ndia_c.htm

(October 14, 2014 at 8:52 am)Riketto Wrote: If the temples were older, then we'd have definite archeological evidence Now genakus why don't you go to Varanasi and start digging under those temples to find out how many civilization existed before the one existing.
Forget for a moment what the expert who study the present civilization say and try to found out what is behind these present civilization.
You may be very surprised in finding out prehistoric civilization.
Coming back to whether Shiva and yoga date back 7000 years or not here there are one more evidence that convince me that it is the case.
The mantras or sound that goes along with the breath are coming from the sanskrit which is more that 7000 years old as well as the svastica which is the yoga symbol.
What more evidence i need?

You call that evidence? You don't understand what evidence means and you are not at all good at rational thinking.

Quote:
http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.com.au/...ttery.html


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...ndia_c.htm

Those links have nothing to do with yoga.

(October 14, 2014 at 8:59 am)Chas Wrote:

(October 14, 2014 at 8:52 am)Riketto Wrote: If the temples were older, then we'd have definite archeological evidence Now genakus why don't you go to Varanasi and start digging under those temples to find out how many civilization existed before the one existing.
Forget for a moment what the expert who study the present civilization say and try to found out what is behind these present civilization.
You may be very surprised in finding out prehistoric civilization.
Coming back to whether Shiva and yoga date back 7000 years or not here there are one more evidence that convince me that it is the case.
The mantras or sound that goes along with the breath are coming from the sanskrit which is more that 7000 years old as well as the svastica which is the yoga symbol.
What more evidence i need?

You call that evidence? You don't understand what evidence means and you are not at all good at rational thinking.

Quote:
http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.com.au/...ttery.html


http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...ndia_c.htm

Those links have nothing to do with yoga.

Yes they do.
It prove that the svastika which is the yoga symbol is at least 7000 years old and the temple in question in which there is the Shivalinga is also 7000 years old so this prove that Shiva lived 7000 years ago.
If you also put the fact that the mantra is the sound or pronunciation of some sanskrit alphabet which is at least 7000 years old then all the factors build up the case.

(October 14, 2014 at 8:52 am)Riketto Wrote: Now genakus why don't you go to Varanasi and start digging under those temples to find out how many civilization existed before the one existing.
Forget for a moment what the expert who study the present civilization say and try to found out what is behind these present civilization.
You may be very surprised in finding out prehistoric civilization.

And how would that change anything? The temples of Varanasi would still be less than 4000 years old.

(October 14, 2014 at 8:52 am)Riketto Wrote: Coming back to whether Shiva and yoga date back 7000 years or not here there are one more evidence that convince me that it is the case.
The mantras or sound that goes along with the breath are coming from the sanskrit which is more that 7000 years old as well as the svastica which is the yoga symbol.
What more evidence i need?
http://atlanteangardens.blogspot.com.au/...ttery.html
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...ndia_c.htm

A lot more, actually.
You'd have to prove your claim that Sanskrit is more than 7000 years old.
Then, given that languages come up with new words and phrases all the time, you'd have to prove that those mantras or sounds have been a part of Sanskrit vocabulary for 7000 years.
Then you'd have to prove an automatic connection between the two, i.e. the practice of yoga would always require that invocation.
Only then you can cite those as evidence of yoga being more than 7000 years old.

The swastika, on the other hand, is not a yoga symbol. They've occurred throughout the world in various antiquities. According to your link - "The swastika, as a symbol, pre-dates the current Holocene era itself, with the earliest known swastika found dating to 10,000 B.C. in the Ukraine, carved on mammoth ivory during the last ice age.". Are you suggesting that people in Ukraine were practicing yoga in 10,000 BC?

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(October 14, 2014 at 9:50 am)Riketto Wrote: Yes they do.
It prove that the svastika which is the yoga symbol is at least 7000 years old and the temple in question in which there is the Shivalinga is also 7000 years old so this prove that Shiva lived 7000 years ago.
If you also put the fact that the mantra is the sound or pronunciation of some sanskrit alphabet which is at least 7000 years old then all the factors build up the case.

No they don't.
The swastika link proves that swastika is not a yoga symbol.
There is no actual evidence that The Malleswaram temple is 7000 years old - just speculation. Which means, no evidence that Shiva was worshipped 7000 years ago.
The Sanskrit language itself isn't 7000 years old, so your last statement falls apart as well.