If you don't mind I have a few questions. I'm orthodox Christian btw

Why is the universe the way it is? Brilliant and beautiful?
Why does it have to be in order? Why can't it be chaotic? Why can't the speed of light change? Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses? Why not anything else? (Note inversely proportional equation doesn't count). Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed? Why are laws the way they are?

why is the energy in the universe constant? Why can't it be destroyed or created

why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws? Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?
Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

I'll check out your answers and reply tomorrow

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Also notice, the actions and thinking of living things are the only things without law ( free will)

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: If you don't mind I have a few questions. I'm orthodox Christian btw

Why is the universe the way it is? Brilliant and beautiful?
Why does it have to be in order? Why can't it be chaotic? Why can't the speed of light change? Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses? Why not anything else? (Note inversely proportional equation doesn't count). Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed? Why are laws the way they are?

why is the energy in the universe constant? Why can't it be destroyed or created

why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws? Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?
Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

I'll check out your answers and reply tomorrow

---

Also notice, the actions and thinking of living things are the only things without law

Because that's the way it developed over billions of years

(October 19, 2014 at 2:26 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: If you don't mind I have a few questions. I'm orthodox Christian btw

Why is the universe the way it is? Brilliant and beautiful?
Why does it have to be in order? Why can't it be chaotic? Why can't the speed of light change? Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses? Why not anything else? (Note inversely proportional equation doesn't count). Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed? Why are laws the way they are?

why is the energy in the universe constant? Why can't it be destroyed or created

why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws? Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?
Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

I'll check out your answers and reply tomorrow

---

Also notice, the actions and thinking of living things are the only things without law

Because that's the way it developed over billions of years

Your saying it DEVELOPED over 13.7 billion years? There was no law and order 0.00000001 second after the big bang?

Oh yeah and if I feel like it, tomorrow I'll ask this in the religious and atheist forums

You'd do better asking it on Google. That's if you're genuinely looking for answers and not angling for a QQOQQ.

Ah, the old theist tactic - ask loaded questions to which you think "because God" is the only answer. Except, most of the questions are of a tautological nature (why is a bachelor unmarried?) and the answer "because God" is a copout.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why is the universe the way it is?

Because the current state of the universe is causally determined by its previous states stretching back to the point where causality starts being applicable.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Brilliant and beautiful?

Who says it is? Those subjective qualities are not objective properties. You can ask why someone considers it to be brilliant and beautiful, but saying that it is is a nonsensical question.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why does it have to be in order?

Loaded question - "order" is a description of the way universe is, the same way "unmarried" is a description of the way a bachelor is. Whatever way the universe is in is what is regarded as "order".

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why can't it be chaotic?

It is chaotic.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why can't the speed of light change?

Ofcourse it can change.
Speed of light in vacuum is 3x10^8 m/s
Speed of light in water is 2.26x10^8 m/s
Speed of light in lead is 1.2x10^8 m/s
Speed of light in glass is 1.5x10^8 m/s.

See? Changing all the time.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses?

To put it very crudely and simplistically:
Different elementary particles are responsible for different aspects and forces - like mass or gravitational force. These particles exist in proportionate amount. Thus, it follows that the results would be proportionate as well.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed? Why are laws the way they are?

Because the so-called "laws" are actually descriptions of how the universe works. In the nature of the universe changes, so would the laws.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: why is the energy in the universe constant? Why can't it be destroyed or created

Its not constant and it can be created of destroyed.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

The same reason water flows from high ground to the low ground and not the other way around.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws?

Because those laws are descriptions of how the universe works. The laws conform to the universe - not the other way around.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?

Nope - its the other way around. If there was a higher power dictating those laws, then it'd be possible for them to be changed or substituted. If you accept that those laws can't be changed or substituted, then that means there is not supervening higher power capable of "setting" the universe.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

Actually, it is.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Also notice, the actions and thinking of living things are the only things without law ( free will)

Ha - dream on.

(October 19, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: You'd do better asking it on Google. That's if you're genuinely looking for answers and not angling for a QQOQQ.

I Was asking for opinions not definite answers

If the Universe was any other way, you would do just as well saying Goddidit, and you would have arrived at that conclusion by making the same irrational leap. Maybe to you it doesn't make sense to say Goddidit while in a chaotic Universe or a Universe of a different order and I would agree, but it makes just as much sense to say that in this Universe; that is, none at all.

Quote:If you don't mind I have a few questions.

Don't mind in the least, but (like Stimbo) I have my suspicions.

Quote:I'm orthodox Christian btw

Nobody's perfect, mate.

Quote:Why is the universe the way it is? Brilliant and beautiful?

This question is nonsensical on the face of it. However the universe is, it is going to be 'the way it is', and 'brilliant and beautiful' is a value judgment.

Quote:Why does it have to be in order?

The universe consists of all quanta and the space between all quanta. Thus, by definition, the universe has to be ordered.

Quote:Why can't it be chaotic?

See above. Without order, the Universe cease to be a universe.

Quote:Why can't the speed of light change?

It can and does, all the time. The speed of light is different in different media. But it you're asking specifically about the speed of light in a vacuum, there are new indications that it may vary slightly.

Quote:Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses? Why not anything else?

I think you mean 'gravitation force' or 'gravitational attraction.' Because gravity is a function of mass.

Quote:(Note inversely proportional equation doesn't count).

Why doesn't it count?

Quote:Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed?

They can. Thermodynamics doesn't appear to apply (for example) on the quantum level.

Quote:Why are laws the way they are?

Based on this and the wording of your other questions, I suspect you have a misunderstanding of what is meant by 'law' in the scientific sense. A law is simply the expression, usually (but not always) mathematical of some observed behavior of the physical universe.

Quote: why is the energy in the universe constant?

Because the universe is a closed system.

Quote:Why can't it be destroyed or created

Because matter and energy are inextricably linked - each is a variant of the other.

Quote:why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

Because energy flows from areas of high energy to areas of low energy. The is why cars don't fall uphill.

Quote: In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws?

I see I was right. The universe doesn't 'conform to laws' - the laws desribe the universe.

Quote:Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?

No. We discover laws, we do not impose them. The notion of a higher power is untenable in the sense that the universe works perfectly well without one.

Quote: Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

Hypothetically, no it couldn't.

You seem like a sincere bloke, so I hope you won't take amiss what I'm going to say. Learn a bit about science and how scientists suspect the universe works. You aren't discussing science in this thread - or even philosophy. You're simply spewing out of lot of non-stumpers you think we haven't heard before in an effort to validate your own belief.

Boru

Okay, I'll bite. But my replies are apt to lead to questions for you. Perhaps since I've done you the courtesy of answering your questions you might answer mine.

(October 19, 2014 at 2:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote: Why is the universe the way it is? Brilliant and beautiful?

Parts of it are beautiful. But mostly what the universe is is empty. And what isn't empty, is still mostly lifeless. Here on earth it is both beautiful and wondrous and ugly and terrible. Not only people, but all living things suffer horribly on earth. Life on earth is organized around killing other living things.

You suggest that beauty implies a god. I don't think so, but if it did, wouldn't the ugliness and the emptiness imply there wasn't a god? So, what do disease, zebra's being eaten alive, insects hatching in living organisms and eating their way out, shit, rotting flesh, volcanic eruptions, and hurricanes imply about the existence of god? You can't have it both ways. If beauty suggests god, ugliness must suggest there isn't one.

Quote:Why does it have to be in order? Why can't it be chaotic? Why can't the speed of light change? Why is gravity between two bodies proportional to product of the masses? Why not anything else? (Note inversely proportional equation doesn't count). Why can't the laws of thermodynamics be changed? Why are laws the way they are?

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why is the energy in the universe constant? Why can't it be destroyed or created

why is heat transfer done from warm regions to cold regions and not the other way around

In short, why does the universe need to conform to the laws?

---

Doesn't the fact that the laws can't be changed or substituted indicate there could be a higher power that set it all in place?
Hypothetically, the universe could very well be chaotic. But it's not

Hypothetically the universe could be chaotic. Hypothetically there could be billions and billions of universes some of which are chaotic and some of which aren't. But hypothetically, we can imagine anything.

This particular universe conforms to some natural laws of physics and chemistry. What is there about conformity to physical laws that makes you think there is a god involved? If there must be a god to make the laws of physics, then what made god? Please explain why a universe with laws existing without a creator, is more improbable than a universe creating god existing without a creator.

And while you are about it explain why, if a god created the universe, you think that that creator still exists or has an interest in the universe presently. Perhaps it took all of god's strength just to make the universe. It that more or less probable than a god who created the universe and lived?

Quote:Also notice, the actions and thinking of living things are the only things without law ( free will)

Ah, free will. It's not entirely clear that we do have free will. Certainly we don't have unlimited free will in that we can't violate the laws of physics, nor can we live forever. Whether we have free will in deciding what to do with the power of movement that we do have, it's not entirely clear. Your brain, mine too, if a physical object and it reacts to stimuli. It's complex, so we can't predict the brain's reaction the way we can predict a planet's orbit or how fast a stone will fall, but that doesn't mean the result isn't the inevitable one bases on the brain's chemistry and prior experiences.

But lets say we do have free will. I like to think we do. So, does that imply god. I don't think so. Once again, which is more improbable: 1) life develops in an ordered universe; or 2) a being complex enough to create life always existed (or sprang into existence) and created life? You see, god as an answer doesn't really answer anything at all. It just adds one more layer of complexity to the problem.

Now, I have a question for you. Suppose you are convinced of god based on the existence of life in an ordered universe; I don't think that's why you are convinced there is a god, but let's suppose that that really is why you believe there is one. What does that tell you about the nature of god? Do all creators love their creations? Do all creators want a relationship with their creations? Can all creators control their creations?

Think about the creators you know. Ever met the author of a novel you adored and were disappointed at what a stupid prick he was? Ever seen a painter/potter/sculptor/mechanic who didn't like their latest creation. Ever seen creations of all kinds rotting in storage?

(October 19, 2014 at 3:16 pm)Vivalarevolution Wrote:

(October 19, 2014 at 3:05 pm)Stimbo Wrote: You'd do better asking it on Google. That's if you're genuinely looking for answers and not angling for a QQOQQ.

I Was asking for opinions not definite answers

No you weren't.

Quote:I'll check out your answers and reply tomorrow

Boru