That's right I am tired of the witch thing because you guys are either no fun or too much fun.. So let's move on to demons. I can't remember if I have mentioned this on this web site or not, but it is an idea I have toyed around with for some time. It's not based in anything biblical just uninformed speculation and attention to what the bible doesn't say... (No I did not convert to Mormonism)

In the bible God and Lucifer (God's number one angel) have it out. Lucifer looses this death match, and is kicked out of heaven to earth. Along with him is 1/3 of the Angels because they believe as He does and does not want to serve as slaves to God for all eternity...

1/3 of all Angels That is a poop ton of angels. Perhaps hundreds of billions, Who are all now demons... Or are they????

Now if a few hundred trillion anything occupy a given space they should leave some sign that they were there right? Where are the signs the demons left?
What evidence is there of them? What signs of any sentient being numbering In The 100's of billions are there on earth besides....

Us...

WHAT IF...

We Are The Fallen?!?!

What if we/man are lucifer's minions, and what if this life is our last of last chances? It gives a whole new meaning to salvation, repentance, attonement, and forgiveness of sin. It also brings a much brighter light on the story of the prodigal son, and why Some of us hate loath God.. And maybe it is why God can justify sending non believers to hell... Even for an eternity..



But, again this is not something the bible teaches, but it would make a good book or movie with a new twist.

Almost thought you were channeling L. Ron Hubbard there for a minute . . .

First things first- we need to extract all the gold out of the ocean.

Is gold an l Ron Hubbard thing?

So

The bible says there are demons.
There is no evidence that demons exist.
Therefore demons do exist (and we are demons).

It's pretty much the structure of any conversation you have with a Christian, just replace the word demons with anything you want.

(October 25, 2014 at 7:19 am)Drich Wrote: Is gold an l Ron Hubbard thing?

No. Close though! It's a Zecharia Sitchin thing. An anunnaki thing.

Demons were fallen angels and angels were the same race or had similar powers to god, otherwise why would satan, an angel who knew god best, think he could win.
Think about it, only someone that thinks they have a chance to be victorious would make that move and that dude had all the inside info.
So if we were demons I would fly to work with my supermanish powers and shoot lasers out my eyes at people I didn't like because I would have like X-man powers and be immortal.

And you see - that is one of the most basic reasons WHY people reject YOUR religion as nonsense - the claim that the god is PERFECT in all ways - and Almighty - all knowing - etc.

There are a number of CONTRADICTIONS to that

If the god were all good - evil would not exist - since the god created EVERYTHING - there is NO other choice for a creator - the devil specifically does not have that power. Yet Evil (the religion being one of that) - does exist.

IF the god were almighty - then there is NO conflict between the God and evil that the god would not win. So - then why does evil exist

1 - There is no god - so evil and good do not overpower each other
2 - There is a god who WANTS evil to exist - hardly a thing I would want to worship
3 - The god cannot overcome evil - why call it a god then?

Let us take up the claim of religion -
1 - We are responsible for our own actions but not those of others including our parents and family. That statement is all over the bible - but then it would eliminate the idea of original sin - since None of US sinned at that time. Certainly the christ cannot save of from sins that we have the FREE WILL not to commit - even if the god THINKS we will.

2 - There are children too young to sin - they are those who have not reached the age of reason or responsibility. Yet - Tens of thousands of these children are born every year - with missing limbs, missing or conjoined body organs, with quite a number of horrible fatal diseases,
or are simply born but not taken care of by their parents.

Free will says that sin does not happen until one actually uses the free will to do it - the claim that a child WILL sin denies that FREE WILL MUST include the ability to choose to NOT do something even the god already knows - or it is NOT FREE WILL.

And so - there is NO justification for an innocent child to be born or contract such maladies - except that either the god does not exist - or it is a bastard.

And then of course - that creates a problem with the claim of free will.
IF a god ALREADY KNOWS what we will do - before we are going to do it - then either

1 - Free will does not exist - we MUST fulfill what the god already knows and cannot do anything - nor can the GOD itself - that the God does not know.

2 - For free will to exist - then the god cannot be all knowing - because we have to have the right to choose what the god does NOT know for will to be actually FREE..

So - religion is simply DOUBLETALK

(October 24, 2014 at 11:12 pm)Drich Wrote: What if we/man are lucifer's minions, and what if this life is our last of last chances? It gives a whole new meaning to salvation, repentance, attonement, and forgiveness of sin. It also brings a much brighter light on the story of the prodigal son, and why Some of us hate loath God.. And maybe it is why God can justify sending non believers to hell... Even for an eternity..

We could also throw in the interesting plot twist that God is a megalomaniac despot whose empire is overthrown at the end by the rebellion that our hero Lucifer leads.

So... who is Lucifer?