(November 14, 2014 at 7:17 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Affordable healthcare. Granted it got watered down, but he's the one that brought us socialized healthcare.

No he didn't. He just forced you to buy health insurance whether you want it or not. Now the healthcare industry is going to go medieval on your ass. They'll eventually circle the wagons, form a cartel, stop competing and start merging.

If you ever wanted socialized medicine, you have to start at your city council by funding community owned healthcare facilities. ACA is an obstacle to socialized medicine.

I'm cool with nullifying that shit.

According to Secular Talk, which is my source for beter or worse, the act has greatly reduced the number of deaths per year from people who didn't have healthcare, and kept people from losing their insurance due to lifetime caps. It's an improvement.

(November 14, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Chad32 Wrote: According to Secular Talk, which is my source for beter or worse, the act has greatly reduced the number of deaths per year from people who didn't have healthcare, and kept people from losing their insurance due to lifetime caps. It's an improvement.

And because of preexisting conditions. They have to take you now. Which is an alien concept to a European. Not being able to have health insurance because of some illness you already have.

Btw, you should also look at David Pakman and the Young Turks. They're the same network after all.

I do watch the other two sometimes.

(November 14, 2014 at 8:04 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 14, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Chad32 Wrote: According to Secular Talk, which is my source for beter or worse, the act has greatly reduced the number of deaths per year from people who didn't have healthcare, and kept people from losing their insurance due to lifetime caps. It's an improvement.

And because of preexisting conditions. They have to take you now. Which is an alien concept to a European. Not being able to have health insurance because of some illness you already have.

Btw, you should also look at David Pakman and the Young Turks. They're the same network after all.

The young turks are morons.....just sayin.

I haven't watched David Pakman or Secular talk....so I don't know about them.

(November 14, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Chad32 Wrote: the act has greatly reduced the number of deaths per year from people who didn't have healthcare, and kept people from losing their insurance due to lifetime caps. It's an improvement.

It's a short term improvement. I'll certainly give you that. But it's plain irresponsible in the long term. The market is meant to run a profit. They can't run a fucking profit and be affordable while making good on highly expensive procedures like chemo, hip replacements, transplants, etc.

My brother works in the ER. Now there are more ridiculous claims than ever ranging from headaches to cramps. The worst is idiots bring their kid to the ER because of a chest cold. Not only does this take up resources and hold up the wait for real emergencies, but it gets the whole staff sick. This endangers patients with immunity disorders.

Hospitals charge as much as they possibly can to insurance companies. So insurance companies try to deny every claim. Allot of situations become a stalemate.

(November 14, 2014 at 6:56 pm)Heywood Wrote: In poker a player who sighs on the flop but then check raises you is telling you one thing with his words and another thing with his actions.

Pro-tip - if you ever see me do that, turbo-fold.

(The point here being, ordinarily, you'd expect that this tell means the bettor is weak. In my case, what it often means is "ship me your stack". I wonder what the point is I'm making here. )

(November 14, 2014 at 9:39 pm)stonedape Wrote:

(November 14, 2014 at 8:00 pm)Chad32 Wrote: the act has greatly reduced the number of deaths per year from people who didn't have healthcare, and kept people from losing their insurance due to lifetime caps. It's an improvement.

It's a short term improvement. I'll certainly give you that. But it's plain irresponsible in the long term. The market is meant to run a profit. They can't run a fucking profit and be affordable while making good on highly expensive procedures like chemo, hip replacements, transplants, etc.

My brother works in the ER. Now there are more ridiculous claims than ever ranging from headaches to cramps. The worst is idiots bring their kid to the ER because of a chest cold. Not only does this take up resources and hold up the wait for real emergencies, but it gets the whole staff sick. This endangers patients with immunity disorders.

Hospitals charge as much as they possibly can to insurance companies. So insurance companies try to deny every claim. Allot of situations become a stalemate.

The best government tends to be a mix of socialism and capitalism. Some thing should be socialized, and since the number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical expenses, that should be socialized. It's a basic need, in the same way food, shelter, and clothing is.

(November 14, 2014 at 9:51 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The best government tends to be a mix of socialism and capitalism. Some thing should be socialized, and since the number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical expenses, that should be socialized. It's a basic need, in the same way food, shelter, and clothing is.

I agree. ACA isn't socialized medicine. It's government mandated crony capitalism. So please figure out what socialism is before throwing that word around.
Socialized medicine would be doctor owned or community funded or healthcare co-ops. Those can be micro managed when you cut out the middle man and focus on providing patients with affordable and reliable care.
ACA is just a bigger middle man with a middle man for reliable and a middle man for affordable. They don't know each other very well and they're not going to get along.

(November 14, 2014 at 10:26 pm)stonedape Wrote:

(November 14, 2014 at 9:51 pm)Chad32 Wrote: The best government tends to be a mix of socialism and capitalism. Some thing should be socialized, and since the number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical expenses, that should be socialized. It's a basic need, in the same way food, shelter, and clothing is.

I agree. ACA isn't socialized medicine. It's government mandated crony capitalism. So please figure out what socialism is before throwing that word around.
Socialized medicine would be doctor owned or community funded or healthcare co-ops. Those can be micro managed when you cut out the middle man and focus on providing patients with affordable and reliable care.
ACA is just a bigger middle man with a middle man for reliable and a middle man for affordable. They don't know each other very well and they're not going to get along.

I know ACA isn't great, but it's still better than what we had before. It's a baby step forward. Like i said: fewer people will die a year because of ACA. We just need to continue improving the system. Unfortunately the republicans are obstructionists, and now that they have a majority it's probably going to be really bad.