(November 19, 2014 at 12:30 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Sin is not responsible for corrupting creation. How exactly does disobedience to god cause thorns to grow, and make childbirth painful? All this was a curse Yahweh placed on the land because he was ticked off. Not something that just started happening because of disobedience.

Disobedience to Yahweh also didn't force him to kill an anaimal just to make clothes for Adam and Eve. He can poof animals into existence, but he has to slaughter one to get skins.

(November 19, 2014 at 12:37 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: A Christian that does not know God exists can have no relationship with Him, thus nullifying there claim. John 3:16 states this very idea.

GC

Well, then I suppose according to you, a huge number of people that identify as Christian are not True Christians™

(November 19, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 12:37 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Well, then I suppose according to you, a huge number of people that identify as Christian are not True Christians™

Now you're own the right track. Scripture shows us this is true.

GC

(November 19, 2014 at 5:59 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: So man created something that God did not? Or did God create the sin?

(November 19, 2014 at 6:03 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 6:00 pm)Godschild Wrote: Now you're own the right track. Scripture shows us this is true.

GC

But all Muslims who do evil are real Muslims, right?

(November 19, 2014 at 12:42 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: A Christian that does not know God exists can have no relationship with Him, thus nullifying there claim. John 3:16 states this very idea.

GC

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John 3:16 it doesn't work
Deception 1: For God so loved the world, (1 John plainly states: “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.” So, on the one hand we are told God loves the world only to be again told for Christians not to love the world. Since, in both cases the Greek word here is κόσμον, one is feed a flat out contradiction especially in light of the statement of Jesus “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” Perfection is not contradiction!
Secondly, if God really loves the world, he would not have destroyed it in the flood of Noah. Love and destruction are totally antonyms.)

Deception 2: …that He gave His only begotten Son, (In Genesis 6:2 we are clearly told: “that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose.” Just as the Hebrew states: בְנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים וַיִּרְאוּ God already had “sons” plural! So one must wondered, even if the Hellenistic Greek writer of John did not understand the Hebrew text, he surly had the LXX which clearly states “οἱ υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ”. While Christians get all choked up about God giving his only son, Jesus, they need to read and believe their Bibles more!)

Deception 3: …that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, (The problem posed here is the fact that orthodox Christian dogma states ( as based on Jesus and the New Testament) that the soul of the non-believer will suffer for eternity in the fires of torment. The Greek word here is “ἀπόληται” clearly means “to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively -- destroy, die, lose, mar, perish”. So which is it? The dead according to both atheists and Jehovah Witnesses are simply fully destroy meaning no eternal soul / nothingness. So, we could say that John 3:16 supports the ahteist view of life too!)

Deception 4: …but have eternal life. (The propaganda sold in this verse is to an ancient world where the average person making it to the age of 30 was considered old where a simple abscessed tooth could mean certain death, to work miracles and not die was to be like the gods themselves (to argue that “ζωὴν αἰώνιον” means that the dead believer lives forever in Heaven is not only a contradiction of terms, but really begs the question all over again as to what not being destroyed and living forever plainly means). When one considers the older Hebrew stories of Enoch, Moses and Elijah along with the Greek story of the miracle worker Apollinus of Tyana who is claimed also to have never died. The false claim in eternal life in John 3:16 is given even more credence as it was preached to the superstitious and mostly literate masses of the Greco-Roman empire to gain fast converts in a ancient world that swam in a sea of religions and promises of hope. End the end, it was Christianity which out sold its fellow religions with verses like John 3:16 which gave more hope to its superstitious world.

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(November 19, 2014 at 6:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: God couldn't create sin, it's not in his nature. Man brought sin into the world, Lucifier was the first to sin, then the fallen angels. God created the burning pit of fire and brimstone for them.

GC

(November 19, 2014 at 12:53 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 12:36 pm)Godschild Wrote: A Christian that does not know God exists can have no relationship with Him, thus nullifying there claim. John 3:16 states this very idea.

GC

Then he's not holding up his end of the relationship. It takes two people making equal effort to have a relationship. If he's the one who wants one, yet he makes himself hard to find, then he fails. We asked, and did not receive, despite there being a erse saying ask and ye shall receive. Seek and ye shall find. Knowck, and the door shall be opened.

(November 19, 2014 at 1:20 pm)Chad32 Wrote:

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(November 19, 2014 at 1:08 pm)Godschild Wrote: Justice requires that if someone accepts Christ as their savior and receives eternal reward, then justice requires an eternal punishment for eternally unforgiven sin against a Holy and Righteous God. This means there are no other choices to be given, there is a limit to what can be offered when the requirements are so specific. Seeing now how this is not blackmail, if hell still bothers you I would think you would want to find out truly why.


What makes you think you can judge an omniscient God, scripture says the clay pot has no right to say to the potter why did you make me into this shape. The creator has the right to His plan without question, so your judgment that God is evil holds no water.

GC

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No one can do something in a limited time to deserve eternal punishment or reward. If someone thinks eternally punishing people must happen in exchange for eternally rewarding others, then take away the eternal reward. You cannot justify eternal punishment. There are a plethora of other options to be given. A simple one is punishment and reward according to what you do. The better you are, the more reward you get. The worse you are, the more punishment you get. Either way it eventually ends, because your life would be finite. What's left is just continued existence in a neutral area, or you could send them back to earth for another life.

It is blackmail. It is evil. You seem to think there's some other reason because you're too busy trying to justify Yahweh's actions to give a legitimate reason why they're just. It's eternal because he never forgives people who die without worshiping him? Holding an eternal grudge does not paint anyone in a good light.

I wonder why you think it "truly" bothers me, after I've clearly given reasons. Apparently you don't know what the words grudge or blackmail means, because you denied that he hold grudges and blackmails people. Why do you think hell bothers me?

What makes you think you can judge Yahweh? You claim he's good, right? We're both using the same source to claim he's good or evil. You say he's good because he claims he's good. I say he's evil because his actions are evil. we're both making judgement calls. If I made a clay sculpture, and gae it free will, it has the right to ask whatever it wants. If I didn't want it asking questions and acting independently, I shouldn't have given it free will.

(November 19, 2014 at 6:08 pm)abaris Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 6:03 pm)Godschild Wrote: God couldn't create sin, it's not in his nature. Man brought sin into the world, Lucifier was the first to sin, then the fallen angels. God created the burning pit of fire and brimstone for them.

GC

Lots of failures for an infallible being....

(November 19, 2014 at 5:19 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(November 19, 2014 at 11:50 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: I can understand your reticence. I'd grow tired of having the internal contradictions of my faith pointed out, too.

I have no contradictions of my faith, I'm very secure in my knowledge of God and who He is.

(November 19, 2014 at 6:09 pm)Godschild Wrote: There were no failures on God's part, the created thought they were smarter than the created.

GC

(November 19, 2014 at 5:19 pm)Godschild Wrote: You say I want answer your questions, then you say I'm saying to much, then you say I'm preaching, confused you are. As far as I know I've answered your questions.