(November 25, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Foreign policy protip: If you have to lie to implement your policy initiatives, they're probably not very sound. Dubya learnt that to the detriment of his legacy; the Republicans learnt that to the detriment of their electoral viability; and hopefully the American people will have learnt that enough to ensure that future presidents are much less quick to reach for the big stick and more apt to speak softly.

Domestic policy protip: If you have to lie to implement your policy initiatives, as Obama and democrats had done, they're probably not very sound.

(November 26, 2014 at 12:21 am)Heywood Wrote: Domestic policy protip: If you have to lie to implement your policy initiatives, as Obama and democrats had done, they're probably not very sound.

Obamacare is working out great! Seems "sound" to me, thank you very much.

How's that Iraq War, creating a shining beacon of democracy for the Middle East that will pave the way for freedom and liberty yatta yatta thing working out for you?

(November 26, 2014 at 12:30 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: Obamacare is working out great! Seems "sound" to me, thank you very much.

How's that Iraq War, creating a shining beacon of democracy for the Middle East that will pave the way for freedom and liberty yatta yatta thing working out for you?

You are not the arbiter of sound domestic policy....the american people are....and the american people have spoken. Obamacare is a disaster.

Obama called our accomplishments in Iraq a great achievement. Its too bad he didn't make the tough decision to maintain that achievement.

(November 26, 2014 at 12:42 am)Heywood Wrote: You are not the arbiter of sound domestic policy....the american people are....and the american people have spoken. Obamacare is a disaster.

Sorry but the numbers don't lie. Costs are down. Coverage is up. Sensible regulations have been implemented. Obamacare is a success by any measure. Sorry the 35% who voted don't agree.

Quote:Obama called our accomplishments in Iraq a great achievement.

Just goes to show you he's not always right. I'm sorry you remember this alternate history where Iraq was a glorious victory. I'm remembering the 5000 dead and 2 trillion spent for nothing.

I'd love to take Saddam back in a cold minute in return for the million dead and trillions spent brought back as well. I'm sure most Iraqis, particularly those living in the north, would agree.

Quote:Its too bad he didn't make the tough decision to maintain that achievement.

It wasn't his decision. W Bush signed the agreement to leave Iraq. Obama was bound to honor it.

(November 26, 2014 at 12:42 am)Heywood Wrote: You are not the arbiter of sound domestic policy....the american people are....and the american people have spoken. Obamacare is a disaster.

Please point out how "Obamacare is a disaster." I see it as a success.

P.S. Just because a law can be better does NOT mean it is a disaster.

(November 26, 2014 at 12:21 am)Heywood Wrote:

(November 25, 2014 at 8:03 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Foreign policy protip: If you have to lie to implement your policy initiatives, they're probably not very sound. Dubya learnt that to the detriment of his legacy; the Republicans learnt that to the detriment of their electoral viability; and hopefully the American people will have learnt that enough to ensure that future presidents are much less quick to reach for the big stick and more apt to speak softly.

Domestic policy protip: If you have to lie to implement your policy initiatives, as Obama and democrats had done, they're probably not very sound.

Indeed. But you and I were talking about Bush's shitty decision-making. All the democratic mistakes in the world don't justify Dubya's blunder ... something you don't seem to understand.

Hmmm.

Heywood is both a theist and a Republican. If there were only some connection between Biblican thinking and Republican thinking, we might learn something.

(November 26, 2014 at 9:05 am)bennyboy Wrote: Hmmm.

Heywood is both a theist and a Republican. If there were only some connection between Biblican thinking and Republican thinking, we might learn something.

I don't fit in with the republicans Benny. I'm a real independent....not a nominal one like so many others.

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(November 26, 2014 at 1:18 am)Parkers Tan Wrote: Indeed. But you and I were talking about Bush's shitty decision-making. All the democratic mistakes in the world don't justify Dubya's blunder ... something you don't seem to understand.

I can justify why we should have gone to war with Iraq. I cannot justify Bush lying about why we were going to war. I agree wholeheartedly that if you have to lie to implement a policy.....its probably a bad policy.

The difference between you and I is you are willing to give Obama's lie a pass...and not Bush. You are making a special pleading because you are giving Obama's lie a pass because you think his blunder wasn't nearly as big of a mistake as Bush's was. That's not a good reason to give Obama's lie a pass.

(November 26, 2014 at 10:03 am)Heywood Wrote: I don't fit in with the republicans Benny. I'm a real independent....not a nominal one like so many others.

"Independent" is a word Republicans like to use these days as a method of getting the Bush stink off of them. They still talk, vote and think like Republicans but they just don't have to take any responsibility for what the GOP has done to America and the world.

Quote:I can justify why we should have gone to war with Iraq.

I was wondering about that.

If you were back in time and president of the US in 2003, you would have invaded Iraq all over again with the only difference that you would have sold it to the public differently? Even knowing what a clusterfuck it was inevitably going to turn into? Even knowing Saddam had no ties to Al Qaida and we'd be creating the perfect playground for Al Qaida?

Would you have handled the reconstruction any better? Would you have also fired all the Baathists knowing it would leave them unemployed and forced to turn to leading the terrorists in rebellion? Would you have planned it any better. Bush banked on "...and they all lived happily ever after" and when that didn't happen, they were blindsided.

(November 26, 2014 at 11:06 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: "Independent" is a word Republicans like to use these days as a method of getting the Bush stink off of them. They still talk, vote and think like Republicans but they just don't have to take any responsibility for what the GOP has done to America and the world.

Independents engage in strategic voting. I vote republican because I don't want to see a democrat in office. I'm sure there are people who vote democrat because they don't want to see a republican in office.

Implement instant run off elections or alternative vote and my voting habits will change significantly.