(December 7, 2014 at 10:45 am)A Theist Wrote: The only psychotics are far-left goof balls like you and Min who imagine a racist conspiracy around every corner and under every tree.

No, see, the problem is, you're the sort of throwback who sees nothing inherently hateful about anything in the above image. To you, that constitutes normal engagement with minorities and the poor. And you think that these demographics trend against you out of this delusion that we're inciting people against you for no reason, and that you're the target of resentment you're doing nothing to earn. You condescend to them that you have any idea what it's like to be in that position and that it is completely right that others should struggle harder in life than you, because God populated this world with winners and losers.

There is no racist right-wing conspiracy. Conspiracies, by definition, are not intentionally conducted right out in the open, on purpose.

* Black presidents need not apply

Bold emphasis added:

(December 7, 2014 at 2:36 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: Well my base argument would be that the treatment that Obama gets is not worse than the treatment that Clinton got, or worse than the treatment that Bush got. I mean how many times did Bush get compared to Hitler by liberals? Countless. The opposition always crucifies the opposing president. Whatever president is in power is always thought of as the worst of all time. Conservatives today say that Obama is the worst of all time. Democrats said that Bush was the worst of all time (I wouldn't be surprised if you agreed)

Oh my Reason.

Seriously?

Please point out to me when W Bush had everything filibustered in the Senate. Please point out to me where Congress shut down the government. Please point out to me where a Democrat screamed "you lie" during a SOTU address, even as the Bush lies were falling like raindrops in a deluge.

Please point out to me where Bush had to address the 9/11 Truthers, the analog to the Birthers, except that the Truthers were never taken seriously by anyone on the right or the left except other crackpot conspiracy theorists.

Please point out to me where Bush was investigated by Congress on the lies he told to get us into the Iraq War, anywhere even close to the endless investigations on Benghazi. Please point out to me where the GOP "took impeachment off the table" like Pelosi did for Bush.

Yes, I think Bush was the worst president of all time. Do you know why? Because not only did he lie us into a war but he destroyed everything he touched. He came to the country during an era of peace and prosperity and left the country in shambles.

Please name for me one positive accomplishment of the W. Bush administration. Just one. And I'll name for you the collapse of the economy and the Iraq War just for starters.

Your entire post is a "both sides, both sides, both sides" tiresome argument that we hear all the time but few can ever name any specifics and when they do, it's always so obviously lame:

• Sure Glenn Beck is crazy but look how angry Keith Olbermann gets, so BOTH SIDES!
  
• Sure Bush lied us into a war but Obama turned out to be wrong on keeping your health insurance plan so BOTH SIDES!
  
• Fox is the conservative propaganda machine but MSNBC has some liberal commentary shows on in the evening so BOTH SIDES!
  

BOTH...
SIDES...
DON'T!

The one thing both sides do is take copious amounts of cash donations from corporations.

Draw your own conclusions about what that means.

And Cap is right; bigots aren't limited to one party or the other, and the only characteristic shared by all members of any party is that they are all human. Or at least they were, before they went into politics.

(December 7, 2014 at 4:02 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: The one thing both sides do is take copious amounts of cash donations from corporations.

Draw your own conclusions about what that means.

That our system is corrupt and progressives aren't represented. The best we can usually vote for is a corporate-friendly centrist like Obama.

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(December 7, 2014 at 10:45 am)A Theist Wrote: We oppose barack obama because he sucks at his job, not because he's black.

I've presented my case with specific examples and articulated why there is a racial element to the GOP's psychotic hatred and deliberate sabotage of the country. At least twice now, maybe three times.

You keep responding with the bare assertion "nuh uh uh".

Time to shit or get off the pot. Elaborate on your rebuttal of my case beyond just a vapid denial.

Please articulate in your answer what specific policies Obama has advocated or implemented that in any way, shape or form justifies the willful sabotage of America, that the GOP is forced to destroy his presidency even if it means tearing apart the country, burning it all down and dancing on the ashes.

Please be more specific than the usual "something something Benghazi something something Communism something something trying to take away our guns".

As Capt has pointed out, we hated W Bush too. However, we could articulate why (lied us into a war, crashed the economy, cronyism over competence, corporate welfare corruption, wedge issue fostering of bigotry, just to name a few) and our resistance to W Bush was focused on elections and working within the system, not government shutdowns and gumming up the works on Capitol Hill.

Oh, and speaking of their tactics, the GOP is about to shut down the government again over yet another political tantrum. I only hope the damage to the economy is mild this time.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Bold emphasis added:

(December 7, 2014 at 2:36 am)CapnAwesome Wrote: Well my base argument would be that the treatment that Obama gets is not worse than the treatment that Clinton got, or worse than the treatment that Bush got. I mean how many times did Bush get compared to Hitler by liberals? Countless. The opposition always crucifies the opposing president. Whatever president is in power is always thought of as the worst of all time. Conservatives today say that Obama is the worst of all time. Democrats said that Bush was the worst of all time (I wouldn't be surprised if you agreed)

Oh my Reason.

Seriously?

Please point out to me when W Bush had everything filibustered in the Senate. Please point out to me where Congress shut down the government. Please point out to me where a Democrat screamed "you lie" during a SOTU address, even as the Bush lies were falling like raindrops in a deluge.

Please point out to me where Bush had to address the 9/11 Truthers, the analog to the Birthers, except that the Truthers were never taken seriously by anyone on the right or the left except other crackpot conspiracy theorists.

Please point out to me where Bush was investigated by Congress on the lies he told to get us into the Iraq War, anywhere even close to the endless investigations on Benghazi. Please point out to me where the GOP "took impeachment off the table" like Pelosi did for Bush.

Yes, I think Bush was the worst president of all time. Do you know why? Because not only did he lie us into a war but he destroyed everything he touched. He came to the country during an era of peace and prosperity and left the country in shambles.

Please name for me one positive accomplishment of the W. Bush administration. Just one. And I'll name for you the collapse of the economy and the Iraq War just for starters.

Your entire post is a "both sides, both sides, both sides" tiresome argument that we hear all the time but few can ever name any specifics and when they do, it's always so obviously lame:

• Sure Glenn Beck is crazy but look how angry Keith Olbermann gets, so BOTH SIDES!
  
• Sure Bush lied us into a war but Obama turned out to be wrong on keeping your health insurance plan so BOTH SIDES!
  
• Fox is the conservative propaganda machine but MSNBC has some liberal commentary shows on in the evening so BOTH SIDES!
  

BOTH...
SIDES...
DON'T!

Haha, you are so biased sometimes it's crazy. Bush didn't have to deal with 9/11 truthers? The 9/11 truthers blamed Bush. When was Obama blamed for a hurricane? How is MSNBC liberal commentary and not propaganda? Give me a break.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Please name for me one positive accomplishment of the W. Bush administration. Just one.

I loathed Bush and his band of criminal cronies -- still do -- but I'm willing to give credit where it's due: his initiative on HIV/AIDS in Africa was a resounding success, and he deserves every plaudit he has received for it.

(December 7, 2014 at 7:53 pm)Crossless1 Wrote:

(December 7, 2014 at 3:32 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Please name for me one positive accomplishment of the W. Bush administration. Just one.

I loathed Bush and his band of criminal cronies -- still do -- but I'm willing to give credit where it's due: his initiative on HIV/AIDS in Africa was a resounding success, and he deserves every plaudit he has received for it.

Bush could of personally rescued a bunch of orphans from a burning building and Deist Paladin would find a way to spin it negatively. Obama could beat the same Orphans to death with a claw hammer and he'd see the sunny side of it. I respect his opinion on religious matters probably more than anyone else on the boards, but he has a serious case of the political blinders.

Quote:Bush could of personally rescued a bunch of orphans from a burning building and Deist Paladin would find a way to spin it negatively

Fucking Bush is more likely to have set the orphanage on fire looking for Terrorists.


Besides....

http://www.counterpunch.org/2013/08/14/t...nd-africa/

Quote: As a recent GAO report on PEPFAR notes: “our recent reports have concluded that PEPFAR has helped partner countries expand treatment programs and increase program efficiency and effectiveness” The same report hints at some of PEPFAR’s problems: “However we found that the OGAC has not yet established a common set of indicators to monitor the results of PEPFAR’s efforts to improve the quality of treatment programs.” (p.14) “Also problems of in-country inventory controls and record keeping’ – ie – waste, theft, corruption.

Some of the success is due to the program’s change in policy, its ability to purchase generic ARV drugs. When Bush was in office, PEPFAR was little more than yet another boom for U.S. pharmaceuticals as the program required that the drugs be purchased from the pharmaceuticals holding patents, It was the shift to generics, encouraged according to some sources by Bill Clinton, has led to a significant extension of the program and $1 billion savings over a five year period. As a result, the cost per patient has gone dropped some 400% from 2005-2011 and many more people have been treated.

Among the more serious criticisms of PEPFAR is the way the program is implemented in Uganda. At the heart of the program is what is referred to as the ABC approach, an acronym for `abstention, be faithful, use a condom’ – a touching, Christian fundamentalist inspired, but almost entirely irrelevant way of treating AIDS.

Why am I not surprised!

(December 7, 2014 at 7:48 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Haha, you are so biased sometimes it's crazy.

Well, you can dismiss me with ad hominems but I'd appreciate it if you would engage my arguments. Still, I understand. The "both sides do it" crowd like to dismiss any liberal who tries to upset their balanced, centrist world with facts.

Quote:Bush didn't have to deal with 9/11 truthers? The 9/11 truthers blamed Bush.

Name one credible liberal pundit or politician who was a Truther. Compare this to how many Birthers there are in the ranks of Republicans, many of whom are still welcomed as commentators on Fox Noise.

Even back in the days when I was marching in peace marches, enraged at Bush for lying us into the war, I laughed at the Truthers and being crackpots. These people were never taken seriously by anyone except Alex Jones and certain nuts on the internet.

Certainly Bush never had to provide proof that 9/11 was not an inside job the same way that Obama had to produce his birth certificate to prove he was born in America.

Quote:When was Obama blamed for a hurricane?

Bush appointed a political corny who had no qualifications to run FEMA. Bush had sent state national guards to fight his personal war in Iraq so they weren't available for situations like when New Orleans got hit by the hurricane. Even discounting those who think Bush's response was too slow, these two blunders certainly made it worse.

So, no, he wasn't blamed for a hurricane. He was blamed for his response and his bumbling leadership mistakes that made it worse.

Yes, liberals hated W Bush (although he now seems like a moderate in comparison to the GOP today). But you know what's different from liberal hatred of W vs. conservative hatred of Obama? Two things:

1. Liberals could articulate why they hated W. (see my post to ATheist above)
2. Liberals worked within the system to oppose him.

Ask a conservative why he/she hates Obama and you'll get two things:
1. Vapid insults like "he's a communist"
2. Untrue statements like "he's trying to take away our guns".

Oh, and conservatives are gearing up to shut down the government again in yet another political tantrum. This is something you never saw during the W administration. Let's hope the damage to the economy is fairly light this time.

Quote:How is MSNBC liberal commentary and not propaganda? Give me a break.

1. They don't lie.
2. Their commentary shows are distinguished from news shows, unlike at Fox where commentary and news reporting are done by the same people and the lines are deliberately blurred. Maddow is never an anchorperson. She doesn't moderate NBC talk shows like Meet the Press.
3. When Maddow et al make a mistake, they humbly correct it.
4. MSNBC also has "morning Joe", who swings a heavier bat at MSNBC than Maddow.

But don't let the facts bother you. Just keep saying "Both sides, both sides, both sides".
"Both sides, lalalala, both sides, lalalalalala both sides..."

---

(December 7, 2014 at 8:03 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: Bush could of personally rescued a bunch of orphans from a burning building and Deist Paladin would find a way to spin it negatively.

Cheney could be videotaped ripping the throats out of and drinking the blood of orphan children of veteran parents who died in Iraq and the first words out of Capt.Awesome's next post will be:

"But the Democrats..."

Sorry dude but "both sides do it" is an article of faith.