When he can apply that concept to his silly god he will get it. I don't think this jackass is even close, Stim.

Baby steps.

Well, until he falls over on his arse again, giggling to himself.

I'm a bit busy today. A little later I'll post a comment about the "historical reliability" of the gospels. Hint: they don't come off so good.

(December 7, 2014 at 11:32 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Um, Bruce Lee actually had the goods. He didn't flail around, missing punches and slipping on banana peels only to declare victory over his amused opponents.

And neither do I; I told you, it is synonymous with me

(December 7, 2014 at 11:32 am)Crossless1 Wrote: Anyway, why are you still flogging this poor dead horse? When may we expect your demonstration of the historicity of the resurrection. It's almost as if you are hesitant to get on with it.

Ok...on to the next one...I will work on it now.

(December 7, 2014 at 11:27 am)His_Majesty Wrote: Why did you abandon the faith?

Most atheists in America, particularly the more active ones in the free thought movement, are ex-Christians.

I was never a Christian. If you ran a poll among Americans on this forum, I'd probably be decisively in the minority.

If you ask them about their story, it's invariably a gradual process. Faith dies a long, drawn out death. No one is ever confident in their faith, one day learns about science or hear a good argument against their religion and *bang* they abandon their faith and become an atheist. If that has ever happened, I've never heard the story, and I have asked it of every ex-Christian.

The story I've always heard starts with nagging questions or doubts. They read some apologetics like Strobel, McDowell, Habermas, Craig, etc. and for a time were reassured (the only real purpose of these apologists is to bolster the faith of the wavering; they have never converted any atheist that I'm aware of). Then they realize the apologetic answers weren't really all that solid. Nagging doubts return a little stronger. They read other apologists. The cycle continues with doubts growing and faith shriveling. They adopt more and more compromises to their beliefs. They become Christians who accept evolution. They become Christians who allow certain Biblical events to be "metaphoric". They water down what they believe as needed to accommodate their new-found knowledge.

Very often, the ex-Christian can't even say for certain when exactly their faith died. It's like asking, "when did your child grow into an adult?"

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(December 7, 2014 at 11:42 am)robvalue Wrote: Does HM really think he is winning?

They always do.

Seriously, this is par for the course.

My first extended run-in with an apologist was on the issue of "morality and Christianity". I brought in all manner of heavy artillery, from rape in the Bible ordered and condoned by the Biblical god to philosophical arguments like pointing out his circular reasoning and special pleading. Finally, he lied. His lie was recorded and then exposed and I nailed him on it. He then started lying about his lie and I declared victory.

He insisted that he had won the argument and that I'd run off.

It doesn't matter how badly they humiliate themselves. It doesn't matter how devastating the counter-arguments are. It doesn't matter if you catch them in a lie. They always declare victory. And think it was a glorious, Bruce-Lee-kicking-ass-on-unnamed-characters kind of victory.

Always.

For the record and for those who might not know, I've never been xtian nor even accidentally religious either.

(December 7, 2014 at 3:18 pm)Stimbo Wrote: For the record and for those who might not know, I've never been xtian nor even accidentally religious either.

Weren't we lucky bastards?

Actually, maybe not so much for you. You're in the UK, right? I was raised in one of the reddest states in America, so for me to grow up without religion or having to waste huge chunks of my childhood sitting in church was nothing less than a fucking miracle. Praise Reason!

Yeah, clearly our good old British patented anti-Jesus shields are still working. Well, mostly.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:11 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Yeah, clearly our good old British patented anti-Jesus shields are still working. Well, mostly.

Yeah, I really, really feel sorry for those people who have to put up with the fundie stuff we see regularly from theists on here. And I feel sorry for both theists and atheists alike in that regard. We're really lucky that the god squad are generally viewed as loons by the public here.

(December 7, 2014 at 5:44 pm)Fidel_Castronaut Wrote: Yeah, I really, really feel sorry for those people who have to put up with the fundie stuff we see regularly from theists on here. And I feel sorry for both theists and atheists alike in that regard. We're really lucky that the god squad are generally viewed as loons by the public here.

In my country these fundies simply don't exist or are keeping a very low profile. Occasionally a loon emerges from some hole, but they're not taken seriously.

That said, I grew up being a christian, but that's also what made me an atheist. I never was a devoted christian anyway, since the whole thing was boring as hell.