Again, your actions in this world don't matter, as long as you accept and love God.

Disgsuting.

If the answer to our failures is stringing up a better man than myself -then I'd say it's the message that's offensive. Irretrievably and inherently offensive...whether held privately or publicly. I don't care about the sin message, or the faith or deeds message. Even "bad guys getting loose because of faith" or "good guys going to hell because of the lack thereof" is moot so long as this is the method by which all of this magic is accomplished.

(December 18, 2014 at 11:15 am)Nope Wrote: I am going to try to put into words why that particular doctrine is so offensive.

First, you have the supposedly perfect being who is so perfect that he won't let anyone less then perfect in his presence. Or so he claims. The angels apparently weren't perfect and they live with him.

What are you talking about? The angels who weren't were cast out. Otherwise know they were with out blemish/perfect up to the point of rebellion.

Quote:He makes humans with faults and tells them that they aren't good enough for his presence.

No He made Adam and Eve with out Blemish/perfect. They themselves elected to take on the stain of sin.

Quote: That wouldn't be so bad if he didn't doom people to a place of misery forever for simply being as he made them

Where else would they go?

Quote:God's offer of salvation involved the rather ludicrous death of another human being. Why would a deity need to kill someone to do what the all powerful being wanted? Is god bound by rules? If so, he is not all powerful

Again Christ's Death on the cross was for our benfit in that we have some idea of scale as to the nature and or Spiritual pain and suffering God went through to simply 'forgive us our sins.' In essence I believe apart of God died as per the repersentation displayed on the cross. We were given that vision/picture of sacrfice so that we may understand the cost of it all, and why God has asked us to accept/acknoweledge what has been done. Because even if we do not understand the Spiritual pain we can relate to the physical pain put upon Christ on the cross.

Quote:Suicide by Roman aside, are you perfect, Drich?

Ah, no.

Quote: Do you think you will go to heaven?

Of my own accord no.

Quote:If you believe that you are saved then you probably believe that if you died right this instance you will be in heaven.

I believe when I die I will face judgement and if I have been faithful to what i was given and I forgave others as I have been forgiven I will be Saved from Hell.

Quote:Yet, you aren't perfect now so how can you be in god's presence?

Again this is why we have been given the Cross. So that we may understand that Christ who was perfect Gave me His own perfection in exchange for my sin. This is what the core is of the gospel of attonement. We have been redeemed in that Christ took my punishment to my beating, to my death, and my time place in Hell for me.

That is why we are to seek God on His terms and can't expect Him to chase after us with magic and special appearences.

Quote:Don't you see that doesn't make sense?

I guess it doesn't if you don't understand the point and purpose of everything that has been done for us.

Quote:If god is real and all powerful and knows the future, he couldn't have invented a book that would have no contradictions no matter what language it was translated.

He has, all one needs is the inclination to look up the passages in question.

(December 18, 2014 at 11:05 am)Drich Wrote:

(December 18, 2014 at 11:02 am)Spooky Wrote: Because to pretend that the book and the followers don't contradict themselves constantly is somewhat hilarious.

what contradictions?

Women shouldn't speak in church - women preachers
Homosexuality is a sin - so is pork/Christian has bacon for breakfast
meek will inherit the earth - proselytise!
slavery is ok - slavery is not ok
etc - etc

I'm at work atm, this is off the top of my head.

Quote:I have and can go through that same list and refute most of them with a simple lexicon

Ho-hum, we know, Drippy. "Simple" is all you can handle.

"Accurate" is an order of magnitude beyond your abilities.

Quote: 'The trouble with Communism is the Communists, just as the trouble with Christianity is the Christians.'

H. L. Mencken

(December 18, 2014 at 11:46 am)Spooky Wrote:

(December 18, 2014 at 11:05 am)Drich Wrote: what contradictions?

Women shouldn't speak in church - women preachers

That is a specific matter for the congergation who allows that sort of thing to be resolved.

Quote:Homosexuality is a sin

Actually All sexual contact outside the confines of a santified marriage is a sin, not just Homosexuality.

Quote:- so is pork/Christian has bacon for breakfast

The consumption of Por products are a sin for OT Jews. Christians have been 'freed' by What happened to Peter in Acts 10:
9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Got to remember the bible repersents 2 seperate Religions. OT Judaism and NT Christianity.

Quote:meek will inherit the earth - proselytise!

What does one have to do with the other?

Quote:slavery is ok - slavery is not ok
etc - etc

Slavery is ok period.
It's how men treat those who are their servants is the problem.

Quote:I'm at work atm, this is off the top of my head.

Maybe give it some more thought and get back with me.

(December 18, 2014 at 12:08 pm)Drich Wrote: Slavery is ok period.

You heard it here folks, and this is the "standard of righteousness".

Are you so disillusioned that it is your selfrighteous belief that you do not currently benfit from slavery? (What's worse unbiblical slavery.)

That's it, I'm going to go out and find a slave later today. You better be right about this because I'll be pissed if I get some kidnapping charge. Can they be white or do they have to be black? I don't want to come across as racist, but I already have a couple white catholic girls in mind.

(December 18, 2014 at 12:08 pm)Drich Wrote: Slavery is ok period.
It's how men treat those who are their servants is the problem.

I was going to reply to many of the things you said, but with this beauty, you kind of talked me out of it. If that's how you feel, nothing you say warrants any consideration.