(December 18, 2014 at 9:33 pm)Lek Wrote: I've got no problem with taking responsibility for my views. I think your problem is that you're christophobic. You're views toward christianity are very hateful. Or maybe you don't really hate christians, but you just hate some of their beliefs.

Oh, don't be ridiculous.

I live with two christians. My in-laws are christians. Some of the people I respect most in the world, old friends whom I still talk to today, are christians. I don't hate christians, but I freely admit to hating some of the beliefs that christianity tries its hardest to engender, and I won't be shamed for that. Some ideas are despicable, they deserve to be reviled. I'm sure you're with me, for example, in hating the idea of racism, or slavery.

No doubt you've taken my last statement and are attempting to find some way to spin it to justify your christian views, but you can stop with that right now. How do we determine which ideas are sufficiently negative to be hated? Rational justification is the first step, and it's also the step at which any christian claim fails: you're not going to be able to say that you revile sins like homosexuality in the way I've just described, because the justification for that (god wants it) does not pass even basic tests of rationality until you can demonstrate a god, his opinions, his authority, and the rational justification for those last two as well.

It isn't going to go well for you.

Quote:My comment about the union of two dogs has nothing to do with homosexuals. I was just trying to come up with a ridiculous example of what someone might try to define as marriage. If I offended anybody, I'm sorry.

In my home country an actual senator, discussing potential gay marriage laws in an official, parliamentary context, compared homosexuality to bestiality. It's a common dehumanizing point of comparison made by certain conservative groups, so it's got some connotations attached to it. Might be a good idea to steer clear of animal comparisons when discussing this issue.

(December 18, 2014 at 10:47 pm)Lek Wrote:

(December 18, 2014 at 10:39 pm)simplemoss Wrote: I'm christophobic I'm fucking terrified of Christians!!! Leave me alone what do you want from me gold? diamonds?? I have none GO AWAY!!!

As vicious as you guys say we are, you better be! Just deposit all your money in the collection basket and we'll leave you alone.

If only it were that simple.

If Jesus is the god of the OT, then there would be plenty of reason to fear him if he was real.

(December 19, 2014 at 6:26 am)Tonus Wrote: If Jesus is the god of the OT, then there would be plenty of reason to fear him if he was real.

In the OT god was a hateful fellow. In the NT he is a asshole.
why love god fear him.. it would only make sense to fear god.

(December 19, 2014 at 6:26 am)Tonus Wrote: If Jesus is the god of the OT, then there would be plenty of reason to fear him if he was real.

He is the God of the old testament.

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(December 19, 2014 at 3:19 am)Esquilax Wrote: I live with two christians. My in-laws are christians. Some of the people I respect most in the world, old friends whom I still talk to today, are christians. I don't hate christians, but I freely admit to hating some of the beliefs that christianity tries its hardest to engender, and I won't be shamed for that. Some ideas are despicable, they deserve to be reviled. I'm sure you're with me, for example, in hating the idea of racism, or slavery.

No doubt you've taken my last statement and are attempting to find some way to spin it to justify your christian views, but you can stop with that right now. How do we determine which ideas are sufficiently negative to be hated? Rational justification is the first step, and it's also the step at which any christian claim fails: you're not going to be able to say that you revile sins like homosexuality in the way I've just described, because the justification for that (god wants it) does not pass even basic tests of rationality until you can demonstrate a god, his opinions, his authority, and the rational justification for those last two as well.

So let me get this straight. You live with two christians and have christian in-laws. You hate some of the views of christianity, but don't hate christians. That's okay. I have a homosexual brother and work with a homosexual whom I like and get along with well. I don't hate homosexuals, but I hate homosexual behavior. That's not okay. Is it because christianity is deserving of condemnation, but homosexual behavior is not?

Are you sure Jesus is the god of the old testament? Someone might have needed to tell him that, because he didn't seem to act like it. He talked to and about Yahweh like he was a completely different person.

"Why do you ask me what is good? There is none good, except god."
"Let not my will, but your will, be done. My god, why have you forsaken me?"

(December 19, 2014 at 3:29 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(December 18, 2014 at 10:47 pm)Lek Wrote: As vicious as you guys say we are, you better be! Just deposit all your money in the collection basket and we'll leave you alone.

If only it were that simple.

[sarcasm]Coz if you give them money once they will never come back for more.[/sarcasm]

(December 19, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Are you sure Jesus is the god of the old testament? Someone might have needed to tell him that, because he didn't seem to act like it. He talked to and about Yahweh like he was a completely different person.

"Why do you ask me what is good? There is none good, except god."
"Let not my will, but your will, be done. My god, why have you forsaken me?"

Yeah i'm pretty sure jesus was either lying or he didn't even bother really reading the OT. OT god is something to fear and that being said OT god isn't a warm friendly loving peaceful god. If jesus is god him saying "my god, why have you forsaken me?". he did it to himself. clearly if god was jesus he should have thought things through before coming to earth like i don't know.
learn this simple string of worlds "i forgive you sinful people" or "i forgive all of you" because he wouldn't needed to bother getting himself killed.

Yes, that too. Yahweh was anything but humble and caring towards his enemies, so where did this come from with Jesus? Love your enemies? Where was that in the OT? Following the letter of the law is something Jesus spoke against, but Yahweh demanded. Picking up sticks on the wrong day of the week means death. Starting to worship another god after the one you were worshiping leaves for forty years means death, even before you make public a rule about only worshiping one god.

Retroactively punishing people for a rule you just made up? That makes no sense.

(December 19, 2014 at 1:49 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Are you sure Jesus is the god of the old testament? Someone might have needed to tell him that, because he didn't seem to act like it. He talked to and about Yahweh like he was a completely different person.

"Why do you ask me what is good? There is none good, except god."
"Let not my will, but your will, be done. My god, why have you forsaken me?"

You have to have an understanding of the Trinity to understand the meaning of the above verses. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons, but one God. In the first quotation Jesus was asking a rhetorical question. The answer would be "because you are God." In the second example Jesus was speaking from his humanity. In order to atone for our sins he had to experience being completely cut off from God.

Having said this, I will say that the mystery of the Trinity is taught in the bible, but the concept is beyond human understanding. I've already heard all the comments and jokes about multiple personalities and so on. God doesn't exist by human standards and reasoning. He is a different being.