(December 22, 2014 at 2:33 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 2:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: You should stick with your second line and the rest of the idiots who can't understand this need to examine their ability to reason. Yes God does have limits, limits because of who He is, justice demanded a hell and God being a just God put into place the just punishment of hell.

GC

How about sticking with the point at hand instead of trying to derail it into yet another hell is real topic?

How about commenting on the poll and your personal feelings on it's validity?

I did why did you ignore it. As far as what I posted above was in response to that subject, you need to read before you jump into someone else's conversation, I believe knee-jerk was mentioned earlier in the thread.

GC

Seems like they can connect someone to an EEG type device, and ask them questions, and learn things from brain electrical reactions. Or am I confusing some sci-fi movie again with real life ?

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And if god's followers really want to know something, why the fuck don't they ask god and see what he says ??

(December 22, 2014 at 2:56 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: Seems like they can connect someone to an EEG type device, and ask them questions, and learn things from brain electrical reactions. Or am I confusing some sci-fi movie again with real life ?

You'd need a MRI/CT scan for that. And all that would likely tell you is whether or not someone is lying or not, provided you get sufficient baseline scans first. It'd be useless in getting anything beyond that, though.

We already have a series of drugs designed to make people talk. They're certainly not foolproof, but they're far better than outright torture in terms of both information quality and the ethics involved.

(December 22, 2014 at 2:41 pm)Godschild Wrote: I did why did you ignore it.

Yeah, I did actually read it, but it was hard to atribute an individual answer to what seems to be a bee hive of semantic denial.

I wonder if it may go the other way too; people who get off on torture, or at least aren't phased by it, are more likely do be drawn into these sick cults maybe?

Jesus told his followers in Matthew 5

38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Paul said

Romans 12

18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. 20"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."…

The biblical response to evil deeds would seem to be that Christians should be going out of the way to help their enemies. So, instead of war, American Christians should have sent food to Bin Laden.

(December 22, 2014 at 3:26 pm)Nope Wrote: Jesus told his followers in Matthew 5

38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Paul said

Romans 12

18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. 20"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."…

The biblical response to evil deeds would seem to be that Christians should be going out of the way to help their enemies. So, instead of war, American Christians should have sent food to Bin Laden.

What a ridiculous statement, what Christ was saying Himself and through Paul had to do with individual attacks on Christians because of their beliefs. You yourself pointed out these statements by Christ were to Christians not all Americans, right. Well it so happens we're Americans also, so as an American with an attack on America I would say Christ saying doesn't apply to this situation. Let me ask you this question, do you really believe Christ would not allow us to defend ourselves against mean people who are being plain old mean and, yet allow nonbelievers to protect themselves from the very same people?

GC

(December 22, 2014 at 4:30 pm)Godschild Wrote: What a ridiculous statement, what Christ was saying Himself and through Paul had to do with individual attacks on Christians because of their beliefs. You yourself pointed out these statements by Christ were to Christians not all Americans, right. Well it so happens we're Americans also, so as an American with an attack on America I would say Christ saying doesn't apply to this situation. Let me ask you this question, do you really believe Christ would not allow us to defend ourselves against mean people who are being plain old mean and, yet allow nonbelievers to protect themselves from the very same people?

GC

The topic here is torture, which is wholly different from self-defense. I hope you're not implying that defense is equivalent to torture. I'm going to go out on a limb here (an admittedly long one) and assume that this isn't the case.

(December 22, 2014 at 4:30 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 3:26 pm)Nope Wrote: Jesus told his followers in Matthew 5

38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

Paul said

Romans 12

18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. 19Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY," says the Lord. 20"BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD."…

The biblical response to evil deeds would seem to be that Christians should be going out of the way to help their enemies. So, instead of war, American Christians should have sent food to Bin Laden.

What a ridiculous statement, what Christ was saying Himself and through Paul had to do with individual attacks on Christians because of their beliefs. You yourself pointed out these statements by Christ were to Christians not all Americans, right. Well it so happens we're Americans also, so as an American with an attack on America I would say Christ saying doesn't apply to this situation. Let me ask you this question, do you really believe Christ would not allow us to defend ourselves against mean people who are being plain old mean and, yet allow nonbelievers to protect themselves from the very same people?

GC

Christians in the United States often use their religion to try to prevent same sex marriage, abortion rights for women and any number of other things. Yet, somehow when we are attacked, they don't think that their bible applies to how the country is run. How do you have it both ways?

Besides, your problem isn't with me, it is with the bible.

Paul in Romans 12 wrote:

Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship. 2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. 3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.…

(December 22, 2014 at 5:19 am)Alex K Wrote: Jesus, GC!... "Disobedience caused the creation of hell". I feel nauseous just reading that.

The only way this could get closer to an abusive parent relationship is if we put a sticker on it saying "caution: abusive parent". And you seem to have internalized this idea of passive aggressive abuse so much. Why don't you see what a sick gaslighting character this God of yours is. I can just hope that people who believe this is normal, do not apply this notion of "moral" parenting to their own children. I'm sure your God tells you how this threat of eternal torture pains Him more than you, eh, but He didn't have a choice, because you were disobedient and sinful? Barf.

Since you show you have no idea of what sin against our perfect God means, I can overlook that type of ignorance.
Disobedience is sin and the sin I'm speaking of is when Lucifer disobeyed God and started a war in Heaven, God kicked him out and created hell for Lucifer and the fallen angels. When man fell the same way and Adam and Eve did, hell was then applied to sinful man.
As far as you trying to apply the concept of hell to Christians and the discipline of their children is ridiculous. When a child disobeys it's parents it's a finite thing because we are finite beings, an eternal punishment is not called for, only one equal to the disobedience to a finite being.
God is infinite and unforgiven sin against an eternal being demands an eternal punishment, so an eternal hell was created to house those who choose to not seek forgivness of their sin against an eternal God.
Now for the last part of your post, trying to apply God's judgment on Christians that's meant for those who refuse to believe don't hold water.

GC