(December 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Godschild Wrote: You can't hold a higher being accountable for anything

Especially one that does not exist. Therefore, accountability is the responsibility of man's behavior brought about by the delusion that he is doing what his imaginary friend intends.

(December 22, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is infinite and unforgiven sin against an eternal being demands an eternal punishment...

Bollocks. That's just a slogan, like "A big pitcher demands a big drink" or "A big steak deserves a big steak sauce." It's just clever word play. It holds no sense. First off, unforgiven sin doesn't demand anything, it's just an inert abstract; it's your unforgiving God that demands infinite punishment. And that doesn't make any sense. We don't hold people accountable for the feelings of the wronged party. People are held accountable for their crimes. Nowhere else but in the warped mind of a Christian would that be considered justice. Nor is holding everyone deserving of the maximum punishment regardless of the severity of the crime. If your God were a judge, he'd rightly be held to be a monster. But I don't hold him as culpable as you for substituting a sing-song rhyme as an adequate defense for the horrific injustice you believe your God perpetrates. That's you doing that, and it's despicable.

(December 22, 2014 at 10:23 am)alpha male Wrote: Knee-jerkers should consider this scenario:

Someone kidnaps your child. The kidnapper is caught, admits the crime, and says he has left the child tied up in the desert. The child will die if not found soon. The kidnapper will not say where the child is.

Suppose that torture would get the kidnapper to reveal where the child is. The child's life would be saved. The kidnapper would also get the lesser charge of kidnapper, rather than being charged with murder.

Would you support torture in this circumstance?

Frankly, I'd be fine with torture in this scenario. My position is independent of my religious belief. It's an act-utilitarianism position.

This is of course a very black-and-white scenario. The kidnapper has admitted guilt and an innocent's life is in imminent danger. One could support torture in this case, and yet be against a torture policy due to practical concerns. Similarly, I am not against capital punishment per se, but oppose it because the many death row cases which have been overturned on DNA evidence in recent years show that we're not able to administer it well from a practical viewpoint.

It is soooo black and white a circumstance that I'm not sure I believe in it's existence. I would agree in that one black and white instance torture might be reasonable. But that's not how torture is used. It's used on suspects and people suspected of having information, and it's been shone time and time again to produce just what the torturer wants to hear and not real information. It has no real value.

Funny that the ten commandments don't prohibit maiming, injuring, or torturing your neighbor. Apparently it's worse to covet his stuff.

(December 21, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Strider Wrote:

(December 21, 2014 at 11:04 pm)Drich Wrote: Torture no, enhanced interrogation techniques? Yes!

You do know those are essentially the same thing, right?

Yeah, don't care.

An EIT is sanctioned torture is not. So yes on EIT, no for torture.

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(December 22, 2014 at 12:17 am)Nope Wrote:

(December 21, 2014 at 11:04 pm)Drich Wrote: Torture no, enhanced interrogation techniques? Yes!

Could you explain the difference to me?

See above statement

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(December 22, 2014 at 12:49 am)abaris Wrote:

(December 21, 2014 at 11:04 pm)Drich Wrote: Torture no, enhanced interrogation techniques? Yes!

That's exactly the idiotic semantics Brian Fisher used in an interview.

Now I know where you're coming from and I expected nothing less. Do me a favor and shut your trap on morality in the future.

"Morality" is a joke of a standard that 'you people' pretend matters. I don't play those games.

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(December 22, 2014 at 10:24 am)Faith No More Wrote: GC and Drich are living proof that moral boundaries can be pushed with some good PR and word manipulation. (Actually, in Drich's case, I doubt any boundaries are being pushed at all.)

Goebbels would be proud!

None.

(December 22, 2014 at 6:34 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Godschild Wrote:

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You can't hold a higher being accountable for anything, read the book of Job, the answer is there multiple times. There were verse just posted that stated Christians were to speak out.
You're like a small child playing tag, saying no,no,no I touched you last, grow up.

GC

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No, you're the one claiming to be an all knowing being when it comes to god.

I've never claimed that and have stated otherwise. It's you and others here that have place that tag on me and the only reason I've been able to come up with, is because you have problems arguing against what I believe.

Quote:You hold the one and only truth and ultimate authority, that's how your posts come over. Don't you see how ridiculous this is? You're a human being voicing opinions like the rest of us. There's nothing behind these opinion other than a single book which you interpret in a way to suit your personal needs.

Like I said above, I have stated differently, you need to get over whatever is bothering you about me, because I don't change what I know as the truth. I'm stating what the Bible says, just because you do not like what the Bible says doesn't make it opinion. Here's your problem, you believe we worship the instruction book, when in reality we worship the Giver of our scriptures, and when I state a truth from the Bible and it strikes a nerve with you, you lash out at the Bible.

Quote:Well, newsflash, there are 40.000 christian denominations in this world, all claiming to hold the single truth. And there are even more other beliefs than yours, who again think to be in possession of the truth.

What an old tired statement, I've heard that ever since I've been here and have found it has no use in an educated argument, you throw it out there as a distraction because you have nothing useful to say. I do not care about all those other gods, they are nothing but wood and stone, meaningless, they bring no hope of anything.

GC

(December 22, 2014 at 9:41 pm)Drich Wrote:

(December 21, 2014 at 11:36 pm)Strider Wrote: You do know those are essentially the same thing, right?

Yeah, don't care.

An EIT is sanctioned torture is not. So yes on EIT, no for torture.

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(December 22, 2014 at 12:17 am)Nope Wrote: Could you explain the difference to me?

See above statement

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(December 22, 2014 at 12:49 am)abaris Wrote: That's exactly the idiotic semantics Brian Fisher used in an interview.

Now I know where you're coming from and I expected nothing less. Do me a favor and shut your trap on morality in the future.

"Morality" is a joke of a standard that 'you people' pretend matters. I don't play those games.

An indictment of fundamentalism for that fundamentalist's own lips.

(December 22, 2014 at 10:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not care about all those other gods, they are nothing but wood and stone, meaningless, they bring no hope of anything.

GC

Neither does your god bring you hope of anything. You just think he does.

(December 22, 2014 at 6:42 pm)Nope Wrote:

Quote:You are correct. A verse was put before me that tried to be used against Christians because the one who presented it thought they had a verse that would condemn Christians in there supposed desire for torture.

GC

I do not think that you are representative of all Christians so no, I wasn't trying to condemn Christians. The desire for torture goes against what Jesus taught. You might not like that but it does. As far as Job, I thought that Christians followed the New Testament.

I'm not representative of all Christians, nor do I desire to be. I haven't tried to defend torture either, what I've been defending is the right of Christians to protect themselves, just as others have a right to do. I'm against torture but, the enhanced interrogation that was described By the CIA to me wasn't torture. Like I stated earlier, the Taliban and ISIL live and practice torture, if the CIA has done no more than what they described then they haven't approached the evil of those groups.
I've never disagreed with the OP as to the percentages of Christians who supported torture. I have my own thoughts on that but most here are to young to know what it means to be in a war.

Quote:You mentioned in another post that you asked a question. Could you rewrite it?

The question is at the end of post #47.

GC

(December 22, 2014 at 10:13 pm)Sionnach Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 10:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not care about all those other gods, they are nothing but wood and stone, meaningless, they bring no hope of anything.

GC

Neither does your god bring you hope of anything. You just think he does.

It's amazing how all religions make this claim.

The followers of the other gods find hope in their beliefs but, apparently, they don't really . . .

(December 22, 2014 at 10:13 pm)Sionnach Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 10:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: I do not care about all those other gods, they are nothing but wood and stone, meaningless, they bring no hope of anything.

GC

Neither does your god bring you hope of anything. You just think he does.

I'm really sorry you do not see the hope of a supreme God of love, I do know the hope I have it and have experienced it.

GC

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(December 22, 2014 at 10:19 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 10:13 pm)Sionnach Wrote: Neither does your god bring you hope of anything. You just think he does.

It's amazing how all religions make this claim.

The followers of the other gods find hope in their beliefs but, apparently, they don't really . . .

How does one find hope in wood or stone, gods made of wood and stone what do they offer?

GC

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(December 22, 2014 at 6:59 pm)Sionnach Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 6:22 pm)Godschild Wrote: You can't hold a higher being accountable for anything

Especially one that does not exist. Therefore, accountability is the responsibility of man's behavior brought about by the delusion that he is doing what his imaginary friend intends.

You can't prove that claim, if you could it would have been done a long time ago.

The Christian church has done more for those in need than any other group of people, we've been practicing responsibility. Can you say the same for atheist, all I see from them is, the only thing that counts is to be logical, rational and super educated.

GC

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(December 22, 2014 at 8:50 pm)rasetsu Wrote:

(December 22, 2014 at 5:02 pm)Godschild Wrote: God is infinite and unforgiven sin against an eternal being demands an eternal punishment...

Bollocks. That's just a slogan, like "A big pitcher demands a big drink" or "A big steak deserves a big steak sauce." It's just clever word play. It holds no sense. First off, unforgiven sin doesn't demand anything, it's just an inert abstract; it's your unforgiving God that demands infinite punishment. And that doesn't make any sense. We don't hold people accountable for the feelings of the wronged party. People are held accountable for their crimes. Nowhere else but in the warped mind of a Christian would that be considered justice. Nor is holding everyone deserving of the maximum punishment regardless of the severity of the crime. If your God were a judge, he'd rightly be held to be a monster. But I don't hold him as culpable as you for substituting a sing-song rhyme as an adequate defense for the horrific injustice you believe your God perpetrates. That's you doing that, and it's despicable.

No, that's the truth, sin is as a crime against a holy and righteous God, with no forgiveness there is no entrance into heaven, being hell is the only other place to spend eternity... well there it is, does that satisfy you, me leaving out the justice and giving you a reality to live with.

GC