(December 26, 2014 at 11:33 am)fr0d0 Wrote:

(December 26, 2014 at 11:28 am)abaris Wrote: fr0d0, though honestly I don't know what denomination, if any, you are.

I'm salvation army/ Methodist/ Protestant

___

This site specifically attracts evangelicals through it's ethos. You'd have to go to an open religious forum for that kind of exposure.

This adds nothing to the conversation and is off topic but...My mother was a single woman with three kids. She worked as a waitress in a small bar and didn't make a lot of money but, for some reason, didn't qualify for welfare.Anyway, a couple of times when our electricity was threatened to be turned off she contacted the Salvation Army and they helped us. That was a very long time ago and I can't remember the particulars but it has always left a positive impression on my mind toward the Salvation Army

(December 26, 2014 at 11:30 am)Crossless1 Wrote:

(December 26, 2014 at 11:19 am)Nope Wrote: I do wish that we had a broader range of theists that visited this site. It seems to be mainly Christian that debate here but I would like to hear from faiths like Hindus who have a different version of the definition of god

There are at least a couple of self-identified Hindus here. Rasetsu comes to mind, though I haven't seen much of her lately.

I wish we could get a practicing Jew or two who really know their stuff. It would be interesting to see the Christians try to run their "Jesus is prophesied hundreds of times in the OT" schtick past them. There's nothing like a bunch of gentiles telling the Jews what their holy book really means.

You don't need practicing Jews. You have a couple of former Jews, and you have people like Min who know their history.

Most Jews even know their bullshit is bullshit.

That is the question that interests me the most out of all of this.

How many theists believe their own bullshit? Or to what degree I guess? I can't think of any humane way of finding out. But simple observation tells me a lot.

(December 26, 2014 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: How many theists believe their own bullshit? Or to what degree I guess? I can't think of any humane way of finding out. But simple observation tells me a lot.

People like GC or the prof certainly believe in it. So much so that the prof is actually looking forward to the end times.

(December 26, 2014 at 12:10 pm)abaris Wrote:

(December 26, 2014 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: How many theists believe their own bullshit? Or to what degree I guess? I can't think of any humane way of finding out. But simple observation tells me a lot.

People like GC or the prof certainly believe in it. So much so that the prof is actually looking forward to the end times.

You're right ans so do I.

GC

(December 26, 2014 at 11:40 am)robvalue Wrote: One last thing then I'll shut up for now.

It's kind of ridiculous to claim that you do have reason and evidence for your religious faith. Because if you do, it wouldn't be faith. It would be in the realm of science.

Faith necessitates reason. No one believes without reason. Same as no one disbelieves without reason. Those reasons may be spurious, but they're reasons to disbelieve nonetheless (that last bit is jest )

(December 26, 2014 at 11:01 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Theists don't come to belief through proof of existence. They "believe in God". Not through any physical evidence. This is the basic mistake the title makes. The op seems to have started off by barking up completely the wrong tree.

Those theists also tend to be very humble, do not reject science, and don't claim their ideas to be objective in any sense that renders opposing paths to self-enlightenment categorically false.

Unfortunately, those theists aren't on the internet, they're off in caves mutilating their bodies, studying the great mystics, or risking their lives to serve the needy.

(December 26, 2014 at 11:42 am)Nope Wrote: This adds nothing to the conversation and is off topic but...My mother was a single woman with three kids. She worked as a waitress in a small bar and didn't make a lot of money but, for some reason, didn't qualify for welfare.Anyway, a couple of times when our electricity was threatened to be turned off she contacted the Salvation Army and they helped us. That was a very long time ago and I can't remember the particulars but it has always left a positive impression on my mind toward the Salvation Army

I think the original sa was on the right lines. People looking after each other as people will naturally do without the sick pressure of the obsession with wealth. The church and Christians are as bad as everyone else when it comes to selfishness.

Yeah maybe. Just reading on a forum though, I can't tell the difference between a zealot and a pisstaker. I'm sure I could put on a convincing bonkers act

Some people probably do believe it. But I'm still not convinced that if it came to an instinctive situation, their natural hard wiring wouldn't win out.

(December 26, 2014 at 12:02 pm)robvalue Wrote: That is the question that interests me the most out of all of this.

How many theists believe their own bullshit? Or to what degree I guess? I can't think of any humane way of finding out. But simple observation tells me a lot.

Pfft let's break out the water board