Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
December 28, 2014 at 6:47 pm (This post was last modified: December 28, 2014 at 6:55 pm by Thumpalumpacus.)
(December 28, 2014 at 4:21 pm)abaris Wrote: I've read quite a lot neo pagan books. And they're usually alluring to nature, including humans, as being god. So basically pantheism.
That's what I figured at first -- but existence itself is not a thing at all. It is a state of something. Now, if someone wants to say the Universe is God, hey, that's nice. Let's sit down and chat ... I've got some questions.
(December 28, 2014 at 4:50 pm)DaddyMoreBucks Wrote:
(December 28, 2014 at 4:01 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Oddly enough, I haven't read one religious book which defines existence itself as god.
The Bible is analogies and metaphors.
Jesus said, “I and the Father are ONE”. Didn't they nail him to something for saying that part in particular?
Lets look at John (My favorite gospel) it is in a religious book called the Bible you might want to read.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
How does that not read like God is Everything?
In the beginning was the word AND.
the word (vibrations? frequencies?) was WITH God (in the same place and as we are about to learn in no way seperate)
And the Word WAS God. (as He is the same thing just described. Clearly a metaphor for the complex thought of the paradox of existence)
King James Bible I am using for referance because it is as close as we are going to get to root meanings without going to ancient greek language. which I can do also if you like….
John 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God.
Is to say, “You can substitute the words GOD and WORD for each other all of it is still God even if you go back the to beginning.”
it does not mean the word is sitting next to God as we know from the 1st statement… God IS the word and vice versa.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
So not one atom or electron or quark or chemical or kitty cat or galaxy is not made by HIM.
Hmmm, How can he make quarks?
Think about it. He would have to be all of the components in order to make something from them.
try to say it in old english and you get John 1:3
one of the Bibles main proofs God is all things.
For without Him was constructed NOTHING.
‘not anything made that was made’ does NOT mean some stuff was made without God lol
this is OLD ENGLISH.
They talked like that.
They would say,”God made the cake. Without God was not any cake made of the cake that was made.
meaning – All this cake here is made by God.
Not – we made a bunch of cakes but those over there were made without God and these here were made with God …
They just said that not any cake was made without God.
Old English.
John 1:4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
saying part of God is the light that gives us life.
The Sun and stars and the by product of fire basically.
I say part of God because they say "In Him"
To say "In him was a strong farmer and a kind man" about someone then meant that one of the characteristics about the person being described is that they were a strong farmer and another is that they were kind.
John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
yeah… lol no explanation needed here...
John 1:6
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
we are ALL sent from God… One of them was named John…
John 1:7
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe
Light clearly being used esoterically as a metaphor for life and for God since John 1:4
He came to say to others, “hey guys I see GOD!”
to witness (see a real thing and testify to its reality) so that others may even believe in what he already can see so that they too will then be able to see it.
John 1:8
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
Which is to say he is not a ego freak thinking He is God. He is seeing God and telling about It. Like me.
John 1:9
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
aka God. (the author indicating a common unity here so the mind can grasp the concept. It must be something real that everyone can see because it is what gives us life. Very clearly defined here in old english)
John 1:10
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
If I built a house is that house not part of me? Would you not say so? is it not my garden in my yard as it is my hands and my feet?
this is old english. this is how they spoke to each other about common things.
This verse is NOT saying God is seperate from the world. It is saying he is everything in that world plus whatever may have created It. The LIFE of life. And that that world still fails to see Him despite witnesses. What could be more worthy of a book?
John 1:11
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
yeah boy do I know that feeling LOL
I can go on here for literally ALL of the Bible as I have studied It in multiple languages for OVER 40 years. With several college courses and personal mentorships and the reading of pretty much everything they ever found in a cave for the last 6000 years or so….
not to brag, I'm just saying what the guy posted is backed up by the Bible and just about every religious text ever written. Especially in the old original translations from ancient Greek.
The Bible describes the evolving of God
aka (also known as) Life Itself.
That doesn't follow. I find the Bible unimpressive, and don't consider your take particularly useful, no matter how impressive your C.V. (curriculum vitae) might appear.
Also, is there some sort of rule that Christians who visit here must compare their reception here with the travails of Christ? Seems like every one of you guys do that shit.
So you're having a hard day on an Internet message board? I'm sure that's just like crucifixion.
December 28, 2014 at 7:21 pm (This post was last modified: December 28, 2014 at 7:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(December 28, 2014 at 6:47 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Also, is there some sort of rule that Christians who visit here must compare their reception here with the travails of Christ? Seems like every one of you guys do that shit.
-they're all fetishists?...lol, whatever might have tipped you off?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
Awww. I would have loved to play with this one. Damned work.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
PM me your email address to join the Slack chat! I'll give you a taco(or five) if you join!--->There's an app and everything!<---
December 29, 2014 at 7:08 am (This post was last modified: December 29, 2014 at 7:40 am by DaddyMoreBucks.)
(December 28, 2014 at 6:47 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote:
(December 28, 2014 at 4:21 pm)abaris Wrote: I've read quite a lot neo pagan books. And they're usually alluring to nature, including humans, as being god. So basically pantheism.
**except pantheism does NOT anthropomorphize.*
That's what I figured at first -- but existence itself is not a thing at all. It is a state of something. Now, if someone wants to say the Universe is God, hey, that's nice. Let's sit down and chat ... I've got some questions.
**You say existence is a state. i say it is a thing. am i wrong? lol
You say potatoe I say potatoe.
"Existence itself is not a thing at all" ROFLCOPTERSINLMAOLAND!
then I guess what you typed is not a thing either since existence is not a thing then how could anyTHING exist?
Seriously I have never seen anyone so close to getting it before. That statement is GOLD.
if existence is not a thing at all to you then I have a great idea. Since you are not using it for anything else try assigning the word God to it and re read the bible... it might actually make sense to you this time.
Quote:That doesn't follow. I find the Bible unimpressive, and don't consider your take particularly useful, no matter how impressive your C.V. (curriculum vitae) might appear.
**Well if you find it unimpressive how likely are you to find hidden meanings in it? lol Don't consider my take useful? maybe try considering it? (too much effort for you?) what is not useful about the end of war, crime, jealousy, hatred, and the rest of the emotions mankind has yet to learn how to deal with in a civilized manner?
Quote:Also, is there some sort of rule that Christians who visit here must compare their reception here with the travails of Christ? Seems like every one of you guys do that shit.
**I never posted that I was Christian. But I would take it as a compliment. I can use other texts, Pagan?, Gnostic?, do you have a preference?
the truth is many 'Christians' do not understand the Bible either.
Quote:So you're having a hard day on an Internet message board? I'm sure that's just like crucifixion.
**Yeah except i am the one doing the crucifying
(December 28, 2014 at 8:09 pm)SteelCurtain Wrote: Awww. I would have loved to play with this one. Damned work.
i'm here. let's play.
(December 28, 2014 at 5:00 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote:
I am going to guess you got low scores on the 'comprehension' part of English class in school.
Your apathy defines you.
(December 28, 2014 at 4:21 pm)abaris Wrote: I've read quite a lot neo pagan books. And they're usually alluring to nature, including humans, as being god. So basically pantheism.
Pantheism is defined as NOT athropomorphizing Life.
on wikipedia anyway for what that is worth.
probably more believeable of a source to you guys for definitions of God than the Bible is haha
But pagans for sure believe in the very same God of which I speak
as do Gnostics, Christians, Catholics, and many many more. Those that have done their homework anyway. Even Muslims have a savior trapped in a cave for 3 days (Sun in winter solstice).
Religion was the first science books. written so the smart and the not so smart could get value from them since paper was as short as people that could read.
That book you are all so unimpressed with remember?
well aren't you the snoot's boot's.
those old people back in those days must have been dumb as tree stumps right? i mean right guys? I mean they (being the only ones alive that took the time to learn to read and write on their own without having it forced on them by public school) must have been so dumb to be writing all that stupid stuff that you are so unimpressed with and makes no sense to YOU.
no way they could have been on to something... right?
I mean you are 100% about that right?
Cause if by chance you were .00000001% wrong then you would be looking pretty dumb trying to tell people that existence is not a thing.
Well it makes perfect sense to well educated people.
What book did you write that was so much better at explaining It?
(December 28, 2014 at 5:09 pm)abaris Wrote:
(December 28, 2014 at 4:50 pm)DaddyMoreBucks Wrote: Jesus said, “I and the Father are ONE”. Didn't they nail him to something for saying that part in particular?
Only if you accept that this person ever existed, having some kind of personality disorder and being actually nailed to the cross. Which wouldn't have happened if he said the above, since the Romans couldn't have given a shit about some mad person roaming the land saying stupid things. The land was ripe with them at that particular time.
And congratulations, you take the bending and stretching of bible verses to a whole new level to suit your agenda. Which only proves that everyone can pick his cheries from that not too well written book.
that is because it is a METAPHOR.
LOTS of people got crucified back then they would tie you up and if anyone cared about you they would come get you that night. If not well the town don't like you no more lol
and they crucified many for professing knowledge of God.
The church has always been very closely tied to the state which i can explain why but another time for that novel...
The Church felt threatened by people that were onto their scheme. The people that knew what God REALLY is and would call them out on it.
If you think God is what the church tells you then you then yeah you are probably being played.
God requires no belief to verify.
No faith required.
God has a location.
Easy to find.
God is a word with a definition.
Webster would say basically 'see the Bible'
And other sources would say 'Supreme Being' - proper noun.
Others say, "All there is, was or ever will be." (good one)
God is Love. (also a good one for the thinking)
God is the creator, keeper, and only resident of all that is.
backed up by thousands of texts from hundreds of countries in as many languages.
take the time to study the roots and definition of a word before you tell people that what it means does not exist or you might look mighty dumb puppy when they finally figure it out lol
(December 29, 2014 at 7:08 am)DaddyMoreBucks Wrote: Blah blah fuckidy blah some more (paraphrased)
(December 28, 2014 at 5:00 pm)Creed of Heresy Wrote:
I am going to guess you got low scores on the 'comprehension' part of English class in school.
Your apathy defines you.
Then more meaningless dredge IE Blah blah blah~ (paraphrased moar)
If you're going to, then you're going to guess wrong. I was actually in AP English throughout high school and my GPA in English was 3.98. Which is why I dismiss everything you state as bland inane "blah blah blah" because that's all I am reading. I am sure you think yourself quite clever and saying things I haven't heard a half-million times before but neither of those things are true. You are correct, though; my apathy DOES define me. It's hard to be empathetic towards something you long ago dismissed as total bullshit. Yes. Your specific view, I years ago dismissed as total bullshit. You are saying nothing new or interesting. Nothing you are saying is eliciting any kind of spark of activity in my brain because what you are saying doesn't fucking require it in order for it to be understood.
You're running around in circles repeating yourself. You're stating that the source for the bible's information is the bible and that the bible is correct because the bible is correct because the bible is correct because the bible is correct because the bible is correct because DO YOU GET THE FUCKING PICTURE YET? I'm going to hope so, but I'm not going to hold my breath, either. You have yet to provide any actual evidence for anything you're saying. You just keep alluding to the bible as if that will magically presto facts into existence, but get this: An encyclopedia is a volume of knowledge because it cites its sources of information. The bible is not a fucking encyclopedia. It does not cite any third party source. It cites itself, and that's it.
Additionally, you keep clinging to the ad populum fallacy of "a bunch of people wrote this and a bunch of people say it's true so it must be," but if seven billion people believed two plus two equals five, get this; IT STILL WOULDN'T BE TRUE.
Either admit you have nothing and you're like the other countless numbers of babbling idiots who are giving themselves far more credit than they deserve in terms of "proving" their faith to be warranted, or do what the rest have failed to do, and give me some actual, tangible, and verifiable facts to back up your claims.
If you can't, then just as my apathy towards bumbling tools defines me, your delusional arrogance arrogance defines you.
Me:
This one is machine and nerve, and has its mind concluded.
You:
This one is but flesh and faith, and is the more deluded.
December 29, 2014 at 9:57 am (This post was last modified: December 29, 2014 at 10:00 am by robvalue.)
It is this amazing obsession with a book magically just been true that astonishes me more than anything else.
I made an example before about this. Say a person believes everything in the bible is true. It doesn't matter what it says, it's true. It needs no verification.
So now imagine when the early bible was being passed around, everyone decided to alter a verse. They completely rewrote it. (This isn't even particularly hypothetical, it's very likely to have happened at least once.)
Now. Whatever they rewrote the verse to be, you would accept it as true. And since they could have wrote anything at all, you are literally prepared to believe anything at all.
I hope that demonstrates a problem. If you say "well no because I'd know that verse was fake" then you are now evaluating the bible, which you have never done before and claimed wasn't necessary.
The fact is, many parts of the bible are well known to be fake, but people believe them to be true anyway. This implies that God originally got it WRONG! Whoops.
Also... If the bible is the perfect word of God, it should have never changed from start to finish. At all, not one word. But it has, dramatically. So it's not the intended word of God, unless God deliberately fed them the wrong stuff initially. Unless you're saying it's "more or less the word of God." Good one.
Ah, the fun I have with the bible.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
(December 29, 2014 at 9:57 am)robvalue Wrote: It is this amazing obsession with a book magically just been true that astonishes me more than anything else.
I made an example before about this. Say a person believes everything in the bible is true. It doesn't matter what it says, it's true. It needs no verification.
So now imagine when the early bible was being passed around, everyone decided to alter a verse. They completely rewrote it. (This isn't even particularly hypothetical, it's very likely to have happened at least once.)
Now. Whatever they rewrote the verse to be, you would accept it as true. And since they could have wrote anything at all, you are literally prepared to believe anything at all.
I hope that demonstrates a problem. If you say "well no because I'd know that verse was fake" then you are now evaluating the bible, which you have never done before and claimed wasn't necessary.
The fact is, many parts of the bible are well known to be fake, but people believe them to be true anyway. This implies that God originally got it WRONG! Whoops.
Also... If the bible is the perfect word of God, it should have never changed from start to finish. At all, not one word. But it has, dramatically. So it's not the intended word of God, unless God deliberately fed them the wrong stuff initially. Unless you're saying it's "more or less the word of God." Good one.
Ah, the fun I have with the bible.
The belief system of that one made up deity is too strong. Its the best lie anyone has made up ever and i mean ever you are to believe it without question or proof or you will be punished if you question or wan't proof. If you ask a person where is your evidence of god they will be like well you of course but it won't be real proof as it takes 2 people to make a baby to have a person. They can't give proof of god and they only have a feeling that a god does exist. That's why the lie works if you get people to believe your lie without questioning it or wanting proof and then have them spread it by violence its going to be around for a very long time.
December 29, 2014 at 10:19 am (This post was last modified: December 29, 2014 at 10:20 am by robvalue.)
I think it probably is the most successful lie ever. I don't know if there are even any contenders.
Oh wait, gravity. I started that one, sorry about that. I told some guy when he got hit with an apple or something. I didn't know people would take it so seriously! Now they're like "No dude it's proved scientifically." Oh well. I'm off to float down to the shops.
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.
![[Image: Bumper+Sticker+-+Asheville+-+Praise+Dog3.JPG]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-d-3rfdI7nG0%2FTerwtFyFXoI%2FAAAAAAAACak%2F7kFSmHeVrng%2Fs320%2FBumper%2BSticker%2B-%2BAsheville%2B-%2BPraise%2BDog3.JPG)
