http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/31/world/...=5043&_r=0

Quote:U.S. Troops, Back in Iraq, Train a Force to Fight ISIS

I guess we just taught the first bunch to jerk off. Our bad.

First time was Bush Sr., so third time's the charm? That's the idea here?

(January 1, 2015 at 1:14 am)Minimalist Wrote: I guess we just taught the first bunch to jerk off. Our bad.

Anyone else feel reminded of Vietnam? I was a child back then, but that helicopter with people clinging to it, on the roof of the US embassy still sticks in my mind.

Iraq just makes another persuasive argument for future wars being of the 'conquest' variety only, with the goal being of putting more stars on the flag.

At the very least, going into a war without a commitment that the opposing side will have to surrender unconditionally BEFORE we stop fucking with them with everything we got militarily has GOT to be perceived as indicating the proposed war is not in furtherance of protecting a vital national interest, and therefore, needs to be nipped in the bud.

(January 1, 2015 at 10:52 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Iraq just makes another persuasive argument for future wars being of the 'conquest' variety only, with the goal being of putting more stars on the flag.

Getting the GOP to approve the addition of a few million non-white, non-Christian, non-English-speaking citizens would not be easy.

We no longer wage war in the old school style.
We just want to be liked.
So the beatings will continue until morale improves.
WT Sherman may have been bipolar, but he was effective in Atlanta.

Disclaimer. I am not advocating we engage in imperial conquest of the Mongol style. But doesn't anybody else care to know how Mr. & Mrs. Khan raised their little boy Ghengis? He was so successful when he grew up.

(January 1, 2015 at 11:28 am)Gawdzilla Wrote:

(January 1, 2015 at 10:52 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Iraq just makes another persuasive argument for future wars being of the 'conquest' variety only, with the goal being of putting more stars on the flag.

Getting the GOP to approve the addition of a few million non-white, non-Christian, non-English-speaking citizens would not be easy.

First few implementations of this strategy wouldn't result in too many new citizens to absorb, if you catch my drift.

We need to wash our hands of the region.

(January 1, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: We need to wash our hands of the region.

Yes, but it's not easy for an addict to break with his dealer. Nearly forty years later, and people are still whipping on old Jimmy Carter as some kind of naïve do-gooder who supposedly would have gutted our national defense and sold out our national interests in the name of rose-colored ideals. They mock him for appearing on national television in a sweater to make the point that people need to turn down their thermostats to save energy. They sniff contemptuously at his having installed solar panels on the White House roof. They excoriate him for suggesting that adopting a comprehensive and aggressive national energy policy is the moral equivalent of war. But here we are decades later: still in bed with the Saudis (despite their abysmal human rights record and having been the seedbed from which Al Qaeda grew), still up to our eyeballs in Iraq with no end in sight, and still tying our national policy to what is best for the oil companies rather what is best for our long-term security interests. And lest we ever forget: we're directly and indirectly responsible for the slaughter of untold numbers of people in that region; several thousand of our own troops have been killed or maimed; we've pissed away an incredible fortune of mostly borrowed money; and, possibly worst of all from the standpoint of our credibility to deal with future crises, our already tattered image as some kind of moral exemplar has been trashed -- probably for all time. Oh, and we aren't much closer to having developed those alternative sources of energy on a scale to compete with fossil fuels in the marketplace. Why? So business-as-usual can carry on and so John Q. Public can save a few bucks at the fucking gas pump while he fills his SUV.

Remind me, who were the naïve ones? It certainly wasn't the politicians carrying water for their corporate overlords in the energy and defense sectors, nor was it the policy hawks who believe it is our divine right to screw with everyone else. Those fuckers knew what they were doing all along. It was us, the U.S. voters, who continue to remind the world time and again that we are little better than overgrown children, too large and consequential to ignore but too stupid and selfish to truly lead.

When the shit storm finally hits this country -- and it will -- we will deserve every bit of it.

(January 1, 2015 at 1:55 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: We need to wash our hands of the region.

Truth is, the USA is at the precise stage Eisenhower warned against when leaving office. The military industrial complex has grown so powerful that it practically rules the government by donating immense sums to politicians. And a perpetual stage of war is in their best interests.