(January 2, 2015 at 8:03 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote:

(January 2, 2015 at 7:07 pm)Blackout Wrote: In case you don't know (probably don't) rational feminists are against gender biases in court.

Really? Then where was the uproar from feminists about this?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...ng-16.html

Quote:Loren Morris, 21, was 16 when she first slept with the schoolboy, who cannot be identified, and continued until he was ten years old.

Morris, who has a child of her own, would have regular intercourse with the boy, now 14, and was only found out after he was overheard bragging about it at school.

A judge today gave Morris a two-year prison sentence at Worcester Crown Court, following a trial last month where she was convicted of three counts of sexual intercourse with a child under 16.

If the genders had been reversed, if a 16 year old boy had been raping an 8 year old girl and only got a two year prison sentance, there would be an absolute uproar. Everyone would be screaming for this boy to be linched. People have rioted over much less than this but there was none of that. No uproar, no calls for her head, no accusations of a biased justice system.

And notice how in the article, they never use the word 'rape'. Just 'intercourse' or 'sex'.

You bastard!

Also, I would like to point out that child-rearing is a right of both parents, and while some custody awards are based on stereotypical notions, many, if not most, others are based on the fact that the mother herself sues for custody, meaning that the father is being stripped of his rights often out of spite and nothing else. If radical feminists stand for equality for all, they should be taking a stand more vocally on this issue.

Fair disclosure: I'm a single father who went to court to defend my paternal rights.

Also Bad wolf, does this make a difference to you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ju...e-1.112250 - Did anyone say victim blaming doesn't exist that often?

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11...in_prison/

What about this? Is it as simple as you put it after all?

---

(January 2, 2015 at 8:18 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Also, I would like to point out that child-rearing is a right of north parents, and while some custody awards are based on stereotypical notions, many, if not most, others are based on the fact that the mother herself sues for custody, meaning that the father is being stripped of his rights often out of spite and nothing else. If radical feminists stand for equality for all, they should be taking a stand more vocally on this issue.

Fair disclosure: I'm a single father who went to court to defend my paternal rights.

And you have much as a right to have your children as your (i assume) ex-wife - I support that completely

(January 2, 2015 at 8:19 pm)Blackout Wrote: Also Bad wolf, does this make a difference to you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ju...e-1.112250 - Did anyone say victim blaming doesn't exist that often?

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11...in_prison/

What about this? Is it as simple as you put it after all?

Essentially saying 'well you do it too' isn't an argument or rebuttal.

(January 2, 2015 at 8:25 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote:

(January 2, 2015 at 8:19 pm)Blackout Wrote: Also Bad wolf, does this make a difference to you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ju...e-1.112250 - Did anyone say victim blaming doesn't exist that often?

http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/11...in_prison/

What about this? Is it as simple as you put it after all?

Essentially saying 'well you do it too' isn't an argument or rebuttal.

No just like giving an example of a female paedophile who got a light sentence when the same happens and can happen with male paedophiles doesn't mean feminists are ok with the fact women can get lighter sentences. But obviously you're working hard to keep the misconception that feminists are ok or want female superiority or female privilege despite the fact that I'm telling you it's not really like that, given that I'm a male, happy as such and I support equity feminism. But do as you please, there's no point in arguing if you refuse to see that your misconception doesn't apply to all feminists.

(January 2, 2015 at 8:27 pm)Blackout Wrote: No just like giving an example of a female paedophile who got a light sentence when the same happens and can happen with male paedophiles doesn't mean feminists are ok with the fact women can get lighter sentences. But obviously you're working hard to keep the misconception that feminists are ok or want female superiority or female privilege despite the fact that I'm telling you it's not really like that, given that I'm a male, happy as such and I support equity feminism. But do as you please, there's no point in arguing if you refuse to see that your misconception doesn't apply to all feminists.

Oh look, you've done it again. I've clarified my position enough times to you and am tired of you strawmanning me.

I'd like to point out that much of this "debate" comes from the semantics of the word. Even a theist is atheist against other forms of theism-- and even a feminist can be opposed to other views of feminism. Ask any 100 feminists, for example, if a woman should be the primary care giver for children, or if a woman should even have children, and you'll get plenty of vociferous responses from about 20 different camps, from "Fuck no, the man should do half," to "Of course, because women are better caregivers," to "Why would any woman demean herself by being a breeding factory for some man's offspring?" Faced with those 3 camps, EVERYONE has to be anti-feminist to some degree, because they are mutually exclusive options.

Let me talk about GTA V. IT'S ROLE PLAYING. I think it's played mainly by 14 year-old boys, and older men role playing 14 year-old boys. It's intrinsically sexist, and a lot of fun. Many males respond at a primal level (I mean, embedded in the DNA and in neural development) to violence, to feelings of dominance, and to sexuality. And denying that, or denying that they should have a safe outlet, is simply to stick one's head in the sand. I don't play the GTA games much any more, but when I did, it was perfectly fine for me to say, "Hee hee, look at me mow down those hoes. Take that, bitches," and then put down the controller and help my wife make dinner.

And in the end, I think that's what it's all about-- feminism is a meme which comes into conflict with what people ARE by defining what they SHOULD BE. Mature men know that almost all their natural instincts are out of place in society: the lust for sex with many partners, the desire to express rage through physical conflict, and the desire to dominate over others are embedded in many males at the level of DNA, and are hard-wired into the brain. But what happens when you take a huge group of people, and try to convince them that they are, at the core, dysfunctional pricks? You are going to see a variety of responses: in some cases, understanding and acceptance-- but also rage, fear, or insecurity.

As a man, I fully support women who seek equality, fair treatment, and full control over what happens to their bodies. I am a feminist of this type. However, if a woman wants to come into my life and lecture me about being a pig because I like porn, or being a macho asshole because I prefer to lead rather than to follow, or being a "caveman" because UFC fighting or GTA V get me excited, then she is going to discover that I just ain't that kind of feminist.

Quote:Let me talk about GTA V. IT'S ROLE PLAYING. I think it's played mainly by 14 year-old boys, and older men role playing 14 year-old boys. It's intrinsically sexist, and a lot of fun. Many males respond at a primal level (I mean, embedded in the DNA and in neural development) to violence, to feelings of dominance, and to sexuality. And denying that, or denying that they should have a safe outlet, is simply to stick one's head in the sand. I don't play the GTA games much any more, but when I did, it was perfectly fine for me to say, "Hee hee, look at me mow down those hoes. Take that, bitches," and then put down the controller and help my wife make dinner.

I'd really like to say that's it's highly unlikely most people playing GTAV are 14 year olds considering the game is rated as "mature Or at least they shouldn't

I think GTA has always been controversial, but even the feminist gamer who called the game sexist/misogynist said it was a great 9/10 game even with flaws. I haven't played GTAV but from what I know the problem is not with hookers or strippers, it's because most female characters are gold diggers or whores or sluts or something that fits into a stereotype. Honestly if there was a game with 3 female playable characters and all men fit into a bad stereotype would you feel ok with that? On the other hand, GTA SA for instance had some cool female characters like Catalina and had more complex personalities for female characters, even if I can't remember everything from the game because I haven't played it in a good while

Quote:
And in the end, I think that's what it's all about-- feminism is a meme which comes into conflict with what people ARE by defining what they SHOULD BE. Mature men know that almost all their natural instincts are out of place in society: the lust for sex with many partners, the desire to express rage through physical conflict, and the desire to dominate over others are embedded in many males at the level of DNA, and are hard-wired into the brain. But what happens when you take a huge group of people, and try to convince them that they are, at the core, dysfunctional pricks? You are going to see a variety of responses: in some cases, understanding and acceptance-- but also rage, fear, or insecurity.

An interesting question is how many of those male traits are really biologically natural or shaped by social norms and cultural influences, not everything we think is natural actually is, and being natural is not an excuse for being a good thing.

Quote:As a man, I fully support women who seek equality, fair treatment, and full control over what happens to their bodies. I am a feminist of this type. However, if a woman wants to come into my life and lecture me about being a pig because I like porn, or being a macho asshole because I prefer to lead rather than to follow, or being a "caveman" because UFC fighting or GTA V get me excited, then she is going to discover that I just ain't that kind of feminist.

Glad to hear that, I think alike.

(January 2, 2015 at 9:32 pm)Blackout Wrote: I haven't played GTAV but from what I know the problem is not with hookers or strippers, it's because most female characters are gold diggers or whores or sluts or something that fits into a stereotype.

I'm just assuming here, but I image if I got into the crime underwolrd, that most of the females WOULD be gold diggers, whores or sluts, and most of the main characters WOULD be male.

Quote:An interesting question is how many of those male traits are really biologically natural or shaped by social norms and cultural influences, not everything we think is natural actually is, and being natural is not an excuse for being a good thing.

As for them being male-- there's never been a time in history when males haven't formed armies. There have been few historical records from any time which didn't glorify armed conflict and relish in describing the details of said conflict. I think it's unlikely that social norms lasting at least 5,000 years are just cultural artifacts.

Also, as a male, I can say that before I had ANY cultural influence, I knew I liked to see naked women. In grade 1, a friend and I found a Playboy magazine in a ditch, and we went freaking bananas. One of the highlights of that year, for sure.

Natural is not necessarily good-- and in the case of male traits, it's often counter-productive. However, when it starts to be relabeled as dysfunction, then there's going to be a pscyhological conflict there. How can we evolve if we're not willing honestly to accept what we are, right here and right now?