(January 4, 2014 at 2:37 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Jesus Christ! How can you mess up quotes so badly?!?!

RDK- Sorry I'm not so computer literate. I'll try harder next time. Thanks!

(January 4, 2014 at 11:37 am)RDK Wrote:

(January 4, 2014 at 3:11 am)pineapplebunnybounce Wrote: This two sentences contradict. Are you defining faith or are you substituting faith with a word you like better? It's 2 different things. I don't even know what you mean and we're only at sentence number 2.

The word faith is rather obscure. Christians use it to keep the notion of God mystical and deep some way. Why not rather make this more simple and define a word with another word. It's what we do to define things.
If all the things that you have seen and heard about
God make you sick, then you are not alone. If I hadn't experienced something good, I would not have come here to risk embarrasement in front of you to share this stuff. I don't have any more respect for organized religion. I went to God directly to find out answers for all of the problems.

You haven't answered my question at all have you? You just went on to say more unsubstantiated things. You don't know what I've heard about god or what I think about god, don't strawman me.

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Quote:What is god? Evidence that he exist. And show me that this is what he asked.

I would like to share with you my interpretation of God. I see Him as the originator of all things. Everything you see around you is made up of His body parts, that way He knows where every part is and how it fits into the grand scheme of things. That includes you and me. We've all been made of all the same stuff, so really, we're all connected. God has a plan for how He will use His body and we are part of everything which happens.

You've only answered what god is, you haven't shown that you are right and you haven't shown that he has asked what you said he asked.

I don't understand, it seems like what you're doing is just to call nature god and say that it's male. Which is not true. Because I'm a girl. Even if nature is called god, can you show that it has a consciousness. You've just made all this up!

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Quote:Baseless statements! Loads of people don't practice what they preach. Which parent tells their child it's ok to lie? But all parents lie to their kids, we know that. Oh and I'm not making a metaphor about god, when I say parents I mean real parents.

I'm not asking you to follow me. If what I am telling you is lies, then just forget about about all that I say. If your life needs improving and you would like some answers it that direction, stay with me. You will find that it is allvery logical and easy to understand.

1st sentence: I'm not asking you to follow me. 3rd sentence: follow me.

And you wonder why you're not taken seriously. Well I do think you're lying through your teeth, I've chosen to point it out to you instead of forget about it. You can't seem to even understand that why things you make up has no implication on reality.

Quote:As far as parenting goes...I don't think that there are very many of you here who are happy in that department. My family life sucked as a kid. I think that is why I have been hard pressed to find some thing better.

What has this got to do with anything? You made a false claim and I pointed it out. And now you go on to make another claim and say that many of us here aren't happy with our parents, how do you even know that? Why are you so comfortable with talking about things you don't know anything about? It's dishonest.

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Quote:Yea? You don't know that. You don't know me. Plenty of children has been killed by their parents. In Sparta, parents inspect their newborns for defects and promptly kill them if they have any. Parents kill children all the time.

And I have no idea what this has to do with god. We aren't god's children. You have parents, you don't discard what they've done for you and call an imaginary being your father, that's just really ungrateful and wrong. Unless your parents tried to kill you, then I guess anything goes at that point.

If you are made of matter, you part of God's family.

This is what happened:
you: you are god's children.
me: no I'm not.
you: yes you are.

You see how this is going to devolve into each of us repeating ourselves if you're going to ignore what I say?

Quote:A new perspective about a creator is a very difficult thing to accept. You have to replace all of the preconceived notions that you have and replace them with new ones. Yhis can't happen quickly. You hyave sought your whole life proving, seeking, and validating the truths that you have.

All this doesn't apply to me at all. Like I said, stop pretending like you know anything about me. Let me tell you something, if I met someone and they go on and assume things about me, I usually don't even bother to talk to them because they can't be bothered to really get to know me. They think they know me better than myself, people like that are really arrogant and usually stupid.

Quote:Who am I To devaluate you, it's not my place. You will have to read on and see if what I have found makes any sense or not at all. I don't think that any of you are disinterested in this subject. I'd say many of you have beat the Bible to death trying to make sense out of it.

Again, not true at all. You don't know anything about us. Stop pretending like you do.

Quote:Frankly speaking, reading the Bible literally wont help you much. You will battle with God's nature as revealed there. The old testament God wants to kill you for your faults, Jesus wants to tell you that He loves you anyway. That's confusing if you ask me. I would not follow a two headed God. Sorry if I have offended many of you Christians. I've read the Bible and became frustrated with it from the start.
Jesus did not carry an old testament around with Him to teach His ideas. He taught concepts that would make sense if you listened long enough.
I do not intend to start some new church or something. There are already too many brand names out already. If the principles that I share make sense, then consider them. As I said, non Of what I say is difficult if you define God's true nature as love. Use that as your common denominator.

I've asked you to prove your position. Not make more things up. You think the bible is confusing so it isn't true? But yet the parts you like (Jesus's section) you take as truth. And then you make this thing up about god's true nature being love. You are making things up, do you realize that?!

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Quote:Obviously he's wrong, isn't he? If a guy tries to attack me I'm going to fucking try my best to kill him. Love him, you kidding me? If someone kills your children would you love them? Why would I want to live like that? Why can't I hate my enemies to protect people who love me? Jesus sounds really ungrateful.

I know the emotion of hate. It's the first thing that comes to mind if I find something so horribly unjust that I just want to kill it and get it out of the way. Let's redirect hate and see if there is an alternative to vengeance.
There is a rule that I have learned to live by.

In your previous post you said you haven't learned to live by it. Now you're changing your story.

And I'm not asking you if it's possible to live like that. I'm asking you why do I even want to? What do I get out of it? Nothing.

Quote:God wants us all to learn how to love. He will stand by anyone who does. But if someone insists on doing the opposite, there is nothing that God will do to support you. Without His protection, you are out blowing in the wind. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff happen to people as a result of living the vengeance lifestyle. I,ve tried the retaliation stuff before, and it can get pretty dirty.
The eye for an eye mentality will never give you a sense of peace. Once you realize that were all made of the same stuff, we all make the same mistakes etc.,you will eventually see the wisdom of kindness instead of hatred. Love is a constructive force.

You're making things up again. You don't know what god wants or if god exists. You just keep making things up. I bet when you're replying to this you'll make more stuff up. I'm fine without god. I've been without god for years.

Actually it would. I've been attacked by strangers before, it would give me a great sense of peace if I learned that they died.

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Quote:Maybe it's because it's so stupid.

It seems stupid since you have not practiced enough of it to see the value in it. Good teachings aren't dead, but you do have to look hard to them.

No, I've explained why it's stupid. Address that instead of making up a reason and then pretend like it is my reason.

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Quote:How do you know what Jesus wants? Define "loving spirit", no idea what that means.

Let me define Love...that method by which harmony is maintained by the actions that you do. There are other ways to say this, but that one works pretty well. Families simply will fail if there is no harmony in them. Besides, love is what you really want anyway. Who wouldn't like better relations with family and friends. Love is just a better choice.

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT I REALLY WANT. Psychopaths don't understand love do they? How do you know I'm not one. So god created psychopaths but excludes them from his teachings? What a stupid thing to do. And I thought you said you are looking for something better because you're unhappy with your parents? Why don't you live in harmony with them instead of making things up in your head?

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Quote:Again with your special knowledge, where did you get this from? How come only you are aware of this and no one else?

I am not the author of these ideas. They can be found elsewhere, but people tend to add a whole lot of un-necessary duties or ordinances to it and call it a religion. I'm not interested in any of that. I first began searching to benefit myself first, and then later realized how helpful it could be for others. That's when the revelations really began to take off. The more I asked God for answers, the more I got.
Ideas are powerful things. They can be used to sucker people in, or they can be used for someones benefit. They seem to be intangible, thats why they are hard to prove until you put them into action. It's the same way with science. Someone concocts a new idea to solve a problem and then the idea is implemented into some physical thing that others can appreciate as well. The idea is intangible, but the results of it are very real. That is the way to understand that God is real. He is willing to give you all some wonderful ideas if you will let Him.

No, I'm asking you where do you get all these things that you are stating as facts. You have stated as facts that god exists and he loves people. But in truth this is all in your head. You think he exists, you would like him to love people, but you have no idea.

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Quote:How do you know any of this? You are claiming to have some sort of divine knowledge, plenty of people claim the same things but are preaching different things. What makes you real?

As I said earlier, Nobody gets a license to keep true things to themself. If an idea is good, God will back it up and it will prosper. I don't own any of this. It's yours to keep for free. I want no money or fame from this work. It pleases me immeasurably to see good ideas changing the hearts of angry or sad people. That is the reward. I thought that this was impossible for me to do at first, but this type of payment became more gratifying than money or popularity.

See what I mean? First you say they're real. Then they're ideas. Then now you're claiming they're true. When I ask you to show that they're true, then you just repeat yourself.

Aw, that's so cute, so instead of actually helping people out with their lives, you think making things up will help people be less angry and sad? Man... what an ego.

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Quote:1. How do you know this?
2. Define miracle.

#1 Good ideas make sense right from the start. These concepts were given to me, I did not invent any of this. On my own, I really couldn't figure it out alone. I received most through revelation or vision.

So they're hallucinations. Glad we cleared that up.

Quote:#2 A miracle, like a coincidence, is something that happens against all odds. The chance that it happens ordinarily is nil. I mean that it really should not have happened at all. The situations surrounding them are remarkable. Coincidences happen to many people. It's God's way of trying to get your attention. If something happens to you that doesn't fit your reasoning at the time but is remarkable in every other way, you can know that God just tapped on yor shoulder.

You don't understand the math of probabilities. If something has a low probability of happening, repeat it often enough, it'll still happen. That's not an anomaly, that is the rule. It's completely ordinary. Are plane crashes miracles? What about 911? That one was really, I mean, what were the chances? Are those miracles? Was god looking over our shoulders?

Quote:

Quote:Then I guess if you're willing, you will have no problem answering my questions. I look forward to that.

Concepts that are too simple can be easily be swept under the rug. It's what you do with these ides that prove that they were genuine in the first place.

Uhm. ... nope.[/quote]

(January 4, 2014 at 2:25 pm)RDK Wrote: RDK- It is hard for me understand what values you have. What do you think is important? I am offering you a way to connect to a wonderful source of knowledge that you don't believe even exist. I am sorry for your shortsightedness. I already know that science can define a lot of things. But it lacks the ability to give you the courage to step into the unknown. Reality has no limits!

I think this is where you started your reply so I'll reply from here.

You are not offering me anything except your assertions based on your experience/beliefs. This is no way near good enough for me to accept as valid evidence for whatever god it is you worship.

It's an odd question you pose, "what are your values?" Values on what? There's a myriad of subjects and discussions that I have opinions about, so you'll need to clarify. Needless to say, despite what you are obviously inferring ('values' [undefined] come from a god, whatever that Is), I derive my views entirely from the context I am surrounded by, my education, my background, my friends and family.

Actually, reality does have limits. Think you can fly? Find a tall building and put your theory to the test! If you don't, I'm really sorry for your shortsightedness (by the way, really nice sleight of hand insult you've thrown in there simply becauase I reject your baseless assertions. How very Christian of you )

I also get the impression you don't know what science is, as science by definition is the study of the unknown.

(December 31, 2013 at 4:31 am)ska88 Wrote: Here are some things that people do that are concepts of the heart that can't be analyzed as easily as a lab rat.

FALSE

The heart pumps blood around the body. 'Concepts of the heart' is a nonsensical idea and is rejected.

(December 31, 2013 at 4:31 am)ska88 Wrote: Try friendship,courage,love,anger, hate.

Emotions/physical states bought about by external stimuli and personal thresholds of tolerance that cause a given chemical reaction to occur within your brain. We can even physically see these emotions being produced through MRI scans. Yes, I understand them quite well, thanks.

(December 31, 2013 at 4:31 am)ska88 Wrote: Are these ideas too abstract to believe so they should not be true.

Gobbledygook. They're not ideas?? I can't make heads nor tails of what you've just written

(December 31, 2013 at 4:31 am)ska88 Wrote: Every one of you have involved yourselves with these things. The difficulty comes when its time for you analyze your own. Concepts of the mind are not provable in a tangible way. They have to fit togeather in a logical way which brings you some useful conclusion. Don't dismiss all of this just because you do not understand what it all means. Ponder on some options and you will be surprised with what you find.

More word salad.

You know, you come across as disingenuous when you start throwing out meaningless horseshit like this when someone calls you on your baseless and thus far seemingly unverifiable assertions.

Like I said, when you start posting on a forum of skeptics things you've just made up, then insulting people by inferring that you're somehow more enlightened than them as a result, you really shouldn't be surprised when you're laughed at.

I fully expect more direct and indirect insults from you in response, when really if you on had even an ounce of intellectual integrity you'd respond either with verifiable evidence that you're correct or retract any notion that you're telling the truth.

When you joined this forum, did you have an agenda of a script that you were going to stick to? If not, I think you need to leave and come back when you've got your beliefs sorted. Seems like pineapple above me has done a pretty decent job of tearing some of your assertions apart by highlighting the numerous contradictions within them.

Some things aren't worth salvaging.

(January 4, 2014 at 2:51 pm)RDK Wrote: RDK- Sorry I'm not so computer literate. I'll try harder next time. Thanks!

Just keep the text that you are replying to between the quote tags, and everything you write out of them, or else you'll single handedly become a nightmare for us mods to have to edit back into normality.

Other than that...

Quote:Concepts of the mind are not provable in a tangible way.

Try putting yourself under a brain scan once in a while; you'll find that we can isolate the parts of the brain where those emotions are coming from, most of the time. They do have a physical location, and in fact can be manipulated using the right stimulus, like drugs. You're comparing apples and pavement, if you're trying to say prayer is like emotions.

I could answer the OP's question but don't have time to read ALL 20 pages of replies.
My version of how I came to believe is 50% good and 50% not too good, perhaps intellectually wrong, but it's something I am grateful for. Many of you won't understand what I just wrote.

I always believed there had to be a creator-call it a god, or life-giver or a gnome- whatever.

1) So the 50% good part (in my view) is that I began reading into Christianity for a full 4 years joining discussions and just understanding it and letting it all soak in. But for those 4 years I had abandoned by birth religion and was basically a person with no religion. I left my old religion and became atheist. But that lasted for about 1 week. I found myself disagreeing with myself on the subject of atheism and the non-existence of god. I started learning about Christianity. I made up my mind 4 years later and settled on Orthodox Christianity and I realized the change inside of me. I'm still not baptized though, so officially I'm still a man with no religion.

2) The 50% bad part is something I won't go too much into detail to explain. This 50% pertains to WHY I looked into Christianity in the first place, and you wouldn't want to know the reason. I don't know if I'm too happy with it myself. Sooo . . .

But what I do know is that because of that bad reason led me to the good part. I read into Christianity and it changed me for the better. For one, I started looking at people I don't agree with as just people with their own POV's and not as annoying idiots who disagreed with everything I said.

Now that I've decided I'm Christian, I'm working on the bad part too and soon I feel I will overcome my feelings about it. I'm trying.

Maybe this didn't answer the question. I kinda just needed to let it out.
I'm sorry for reviving a dead thread, if that's a bad thing.

As to what I saw in Christianity, I don't know. Need to come up with an answer for that

Holy necrothread, batman.

Edit: I got so excited when I saw Ivy's user name, and then was really disappointed when I realized this thread is over a year old.

(January 12, 2015 at 10:53 am)Grasshopper Wrote: I'm sorry for reviving a dead thread, if that's a bad thing.

Please read the rules.

(January 12, 2015 at 12:48 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Edit: I got so excited when I saw Ivy's user name, and then was really disappointed when I realized this thread is over a year old.

Sigh, me too. Thought the same thing about another recent thread necro where Kayenneh had posted. At least Cinjin's return is legit!