Yea you may be right about that. But I think real point of these kind of questions is creating something bigger than infinity. At least I thought that way, when I first heard it. "His power is infinite but can he create a stone that he cannot lift" or "can he create a god stronger than he is."(this one also damages god's most powerful title.)
And it does not contradicts omnipotence's definition but his claim about being omnipotent. Though, I have to admit that it is about our understanding of infinity.And we don't even know that if there could be infinity or not. we just clasiffy things that we dont know its ending as infinite. But in order to god being omnipotent he has to have endless power. So with our concept of infinity there can't be an omnipotent god. Becouse there is nothing bigger than infinity and therefore you cannot create something bigger than infinity.

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And by the way since when being omnipotent is possible? So it has to contradict with it's meaning for one can't be omnipotent And this question points out that nothing can be omnipotent. the more I think about it the more convinced I am that it does refute omnipotence.

The god, stone question is circumvented by Christians claiming god can only do the logically possible. My question goes to the heart of logical proof. Philosphists will admit that if you can demonstrate something is logically contradicted then it doesn't exist. What i am after is how Christians resolve this. The earlier response by a theist in this thread was to ignore the problem. I repeat as chritians define god, Jesus could not be fully man and god because he would be a limited, unlimited being.

Quote:One thing I've not got my head around. One for any Christian theist.

How can Jesus be fully man and fully god. Man is limited, god unlimited. This is a straightforward logical contradiction. Without hiding behind any mysterious response how do you reconcile this?

It makes no sense. The logic we have inherited tells us that x = x. X doesnt = Y
However, Hebrew logic is vastly different X can = X Y and Z without being illogical.
Greek philosphers and scholars couldnt understand how this works (thus, arrianism)
So it matters what logic you use.

(August 9, 2010 at 8:33 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: The god, stone question is circumvented by Christians claiming god can only do the logically possible. My question goes to the heart of logical proof. Philosphists will admit that if you can demonstrate something is logically contradicted then it doesn't exist. What i am after is how Christians resolve this. The earlier response by a theist in this thread was to ignore the problem. I repeat as chritians define god, Jesus could not be fully man and god because he would be a limited, unlimited being.

From the earlier thiest: You must not have read very carefully what was stated. Christ laid down His powers (left them in Heaven) so that he could be fully man and yet fully God. It would take a God to be able to lay down His omnipotence to serve the Father as a man. If Christ had not laid down His powers the Jewish priest and Roman authority would not have been able to kill Him. Even as a man and God Jesus stated that no one could harm Him if He did not allow it to be so. Remember this Jesus still had His omniscients and omnipresents as was demonstrated in His encounters with the rebellious Jewish people. I fully understood what you were asking and responded with an explanation you have decided to ignor and that is your problem not a lack of understanding on my part. This is why I've tried a second time to help you get your mind wrapped around this reality.

Thou shalt not kill

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

(August 9, 2010 at 3:13 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(August 9, 2010 at 8:33 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: The god, stone question is circumvented by Christians claiming god can only do the logically possible. My question goes to the heart of logical proof. Philosphists will admit that if you can demonstrate something is logically contradicted then it doesn't exist. What i am after is how Christians resolve this. The earlier response by a theist in this thread was to ignore the problem. I repeat as chritians define god, Jesus could not be fully man and god because he would be a limited, unlimited being.

From the earlier thiest: You must not have read very carefully what was stated. Christ laid down His powers (left them in Heaven) so that he could be fully man and yet fully God. It would take a God to be able to lay down His omnipotence to serve the Father as a man. If Christ had not laid down His powers the Jewish priest and Roman authority would not have been able to kill Him. Even as a man and God Jesus stated that no one could harm Him if He did not allow it to be so. Remember this Jesus still had His omniscients and omnipresents as was demonstrated in His encounters with the rebellious Jewish people. I fully understood what you were asking and responded with an explanation you have decided to ignor and that is your problem not a lack of understanding on my part. This is why I've tried a second time to help you get your mind wrapped around this reality.

Thank you for clarifying. But I do not think it's an answer and you have ignored the problem. Leaving aside how you know this is true because this is not claimed by the writers of the new testament, you have introduced another problem. How did he perform miracles if he left his god like powers in heaven? Which powers are left behind which not? How is this not just an appeal to magic and mysticism? The cult of Egyptian mythology claimed similar are better documented and precede Christianity, but we dismiss them?

(August 9, 2010 at 8:33 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: Thank you for clarifying. But I do not think it's an answer and you have ignored the problem. Leaving aside how you know this is true because this is not claimed by the writers of the new testament, you have introduced another problem. How did he perform miracles if he left his god like powers in heaven? Which powers are left behind which not? How is this not just an appeal to magic and mysticism? The cult of Egyptian mythology claimed similar are better documented and precede Christianity, but we dismiss them?

Go back to the first reply and you will have your answer for the bold text. You can dismiss the Egyptain mythology because they do not claim to have a living God. What do you mean by better documented? Who documented what and when. I'm not up on their mythology. Many religions have preceded christianity most are long gone only a few remain. Christianity as you know comes through the God of Israel and He has always existed and will always exist so no religion can precede the one true God.
You should read the NT more carefully the answers I've given are there.

Quote:Christianity as you know comes through the God of Israel and He has always existed and will always exist so no religion can precede the one true God.

And no other gods but YOUR god is the one true God because? What makes him so different from all the other imaginary deities apart from what a book says?

Quote:You should read the NT more carefully the answers I've given are there.

And the circular reasoning continues; "I believe what the bible says because the bible says so".

(August 10, 2010 at 3:13 am)DiRNiS Wrote:

Quote:Christianity as you know comes through the God of Israel and He has always existed and will always exist so no religion can precede the one true God.

And no other gods but YOUR god is the one true God because? What makes him so different from all the other imaginary deities apart from what a book says?

Quote:You should read the NT more carefully the answers I've given are there.

And the circular reasoning continues; "I believe what the bible says because the bible says so".

I agree I think we can dismiss these arguments. The logical contradiction still stands I'm afraid, it's the first time I've heard the Jesus left his powers in heaven argument. But it is just a construct to suit the dogma which has been constructed after the fact. The only other refutation I've heard is Jesus was fully man in his man nature and fully god in his god nature. But like most people I have no idea what that means, probably like the person stating it. This was a more intersting argument but clearly doesn't refute the contradiction. I'm still interested to know if any theist has an answer to this that can stand up to scrutiny.

(August 10, 2010 at 12:45 pm)Captain Scarlet Wrote:

(August 10, 2010 at 3:13 am)DiRNiS Wrote:

Quote:Christianity as you know comes through the God of Israel and He has always existed and will always exist so no religion can precede the one true God.

And no other gods but YOUR god is the one true God because? What makes him so different from all the other imaginary deities apart from what a book says?

Quote:You should read the NT more carefully the answers I've given are there.

And the circular reasoning continues; "I believe what the bible says because the bible says so".

I agree I think we can dismiss these arguments. The logical contradiction still stands I'm afraid, it's the first time I've heard the Jesus left his powers in heaven argument. But it is just a construct to suit the dogma which has been constructed after the fact. The only other refutation I've heard is Jesus was fully man in his man nature and fully god in his god nature. But like most people I have no idea what that means, probably like the person stating it. This was a more intersting argument but clearly doesn't refute the contradiction. I'm still interested to know if any theist has an answer to this that can stand up to scrutiny.

Think of Christ as gods avatar on earth, like your nickname is your avatar on this forum, you act diferently under your avatar than you do in real life, and your avatar is not made of flesh or neurons, same with god.

Did i just compare Christ to a internet avatar... The way the holy ghost interacts makes me think it may be Gods Admin account