(February 8, 2015 at 7:10 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:

(February 8, 2015 at 11:38 am)Dystopia Wrote: Chad you speak as if there was complete equality between individuals irrespective of social status, race, identity, and so one, which clearly there isn't.

Anyone can see that some people are born both with natural talents and into social advantage. However, in terms of the civil laws, the law is to be applied equally regardless of these advantages.

You do realize that's completely irrelevant if individuals start form an unequal position, right? Imagine someone who is born into a high-class family and has all the means to have a good education and compare that person to someone who is born in a low income family and needs to start working, drop school, etc very soon. Where the hell is equality in this? This tells me simply that we are not making the most of our human resources. But we should. SOcial justice is not about forcing the same result, it's simply to provide people a common starting point that gives no one advantages or disadvantages. It seems fair

Why are we asking if atheism+ bit the dust? Did something happen or is it just that membership is down?

(February 8, 2015 at 5:54 pm)Dystopia Wrote: You really need to stop quoting conservative sources for your claims.

I am noticing a lot of repetition in your post, so I am going to condense it down and get to the core.

Seriously, you keep bringing up ''Conservative'' despite the fact that I cited a link of that same Feminist saying she is a registered Democrat with Libertarian values? And also the fact that she is an established Feminist with over 40 years work with a P.H.D opposed to third-wave bloggers like Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wuu, who are frauds hijacking Feminism.

On the topic of Conservatives - Conservatives hate Gamers. If you look at the history, they have been more towards regulating gaming and FOX News, which is right-wing propaganda has always hated on Gaming.

Quote:Also the woman in the video reveals zero knowledge on how media actually works and affects our perceptions.

She is not just a ''woman'' --- CH Sommers was a Feminist when Feminism was actually much more relevant in the 1970s; her credentials far outweigh Anita Sarkeesian, so to think she has ''zero knowledge'' on perceptions of females is quite frankly, ridiculous and unfounded in reality.

Quote:I have done research on projects regarding media effects on our daily lives

...CH Sommers also did her research, which is what the video was, an evaluation of opposing views.

Quote:and I can tell you that the way people are portrayed affects how we see and expect others to behave.

...Did you watch the video?

Quote:--> 1 - Violence in games can cause violence in real life if the person playing is either immature or cannot distinguish fiction and reality. Much like series like Dexter and violent movies have been accused of causing violence. It depends on the person using the medium and people should be mature enough before consumption

No...this idea and false myth of ''Gaming causes violence!'' has been proven wrong study after study. I'm not sure how many it will take to finally convey that violent Games do not = real life violence. Accusing doesn't mean evidence.

The Psychological Bulletin in 2010 published their report that video games causing violence has little to no evidence and is simply a scare tactic used by politicians and the media.

It's beating a dead horse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMWEg-DdUDg

Quote:- Sexism is different because it operates on a one sided level that prevails over the other - Men are powerful and protagonists, women are weaker, are portrayed as sexy babes and have less important roles.

No. This is an Anita Sarkeesian talking point which has no evidence whatsoever; recent gamings have illustrates that female protagonists and characters actually kicking ass. You know, female SPARTANS in Halo or Chun Li in Street-Fighter. Or the ability to play as Catwoman and what-not in the Arkham Games.

Your assertion lacks evidence, as clarified here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVlCvBd21w

Quote:Men have a more important side,

No. See the examples given.

Quote:white men in particular

This really has no substantiation. Nor is it relevant.

Quote:, women have a supportive role and their strength is usually limited to having hot bodies that fit unrealistic beauty standards.

Excuse me?

The vast majority of men in video games are 6ft + males with ripped six packs and ultimate Kung-Fu skills. Is this realistic? No. It's a Feminist double standard.



Women have fit bodies in games because to actually run around and do backflips, you need to be in shape. Gaming is an escape fantasy.

Essentially the rest of your post has been debunked with contrary evidence; and quite frankly, is repeating the same cliche.

Quote:Cultural Marxism is an anti-semitic idea promoted by white nationalists. It's Jewish hating ideology. If you don't believe me check out stormfront forums.

Cultural Marxism is not anti-semitic. It has nothing to do with Jews. Marxism has nothing to do with Judaism. Marxism is an ideology. Judaism is a religion.

Quote:Feminism is the only movement that will ever erase men's issues because men's problems are caused by gender roles and feminism hates gender roles.

Men's problems are not caused by gender roles --- they are caused by a number of factors, but women do abuse their power over men for sure when exploiting their gender role to take custody of children. This is a double standard the MRA fight.

Essentially, I approve of MRA's --- and I don't think Feminism needs beta-white knight males. Women in the western world have freedom, women in the Islamic world do not. Feminists try to interject themselves into gaming, but thankfully they're being pushed out and opposed; they need to actually tackle problems such as FGM or the violence against women in Islamic countries, where Feminism is needed more than ever.

Quote:I am noticing a lot of repetition in your post, so I am going to condense it down and get to the core.

Repetition is what you've been doing

Quote:Seriously, you keep bringing up ''Conservative'' despite the fact that I cited a link of that same Feminist saying she is a registered Democrat with Libertarian values? And also the fact that she is an established Feminist with over 40 years work with a P.H.D opposed to third-wave bloggers like Anita Sarkeesian and Brianna Wuu, who are frauds hijacking Feminism.

I don't give a shit about her, I give a shit about the source - The American Enterprise Institute that is certainly not the best source to evaluate how thigns work.

Quote:On the topic of Conservatives - Conservatives hate Gamers. If you look at the history, they have been more towards regulating gaming and FOX News, which is right-wing propaganda has always hated on Gaming.

Yes but they love gender roles and hate women - Therefore anything that promotes gender roles is in their agenda

Quote:She is not just a ''woman'' --- CH Sommers was a Feminist when Feminism was actually much more relevant in the 1970s; her credentials far outweigh Anita Sarkeesian, so to think she has ''zero knowledge'' on perceptions of females is quite frankly, ridiculous and unfounded in reality.

- Your opinion on the feminist movement and its necessity is irrelevant, because I've seen enough sexism in life to conclude it is necessary
- Credentials don't matter, her criticism in the video lacks critical thinking on how media works.

Quote:...CH Sommers also did her research, which is what the video was, an evaluation of opposing views.

Conservatives do research all the time.

Quote:...Did you watch the video?

There is numerous evidence on how media affects our perception. The Feminine Mystique by 2nd wave feminist Betty Friedan is a good start on this topic and it shows how media back in the 50's/60's portrayed women as housewives and because of that they were raised to believe they should be housewives.

Quote:No...this idea and false myth of ''Gaming causes violence!'' has been proven wrong study after study. I'm not sure how many it will take to finally convey that violent Games do not = real life violence. Accusing doesn't mean evidence.

But violence is not endorsed by games specifically - Many times it is strategic and the game doesn't promote violence and show it as acceptable
In stealth games you are benefited to not use violence and avoid enemy contact
In games like COD it is war so it's justified to use violence for survival
In Resident Evil you fight zombies
In GTA you can use violence but the goal is to have fun and have freedom to do everything you want. Violence is a side effect

Quote:The Psychological Bulletin in 2010 published their report that video games causing violence has little to no evidence and is simply a scare tactic used by politicians and the media.

I never said it causes - I said irresponsible immature people could be compelled to practice violence because of games - But this happens to any form of media. A guy killed some people and claimed it was because of Dexter series - Is this Dexter's fault? No, but that person shouldn't be exposed to such medium

Quote:No. This is an Anita Sarkeesian talking point which has no evidence whatsoever; recent gamings have illustrates that female protagonists and characters actually kicking ass. You know, female SPARTANS in Halo or Chun Li in Street-Fighter. Or the ability to play as Catwoman and what-not in the Arkham Games.

- Those are exceptions but most protagonists are male
- And female characters are still portrayed excessively hot compared to male counterparts.

Quote:No. See the examples given.

No, if you really think men are not more important as characters in videogames you should revise your standards. Most characters are men, specially protagonists, as well as villains, women are less important and have secondary roles. If you think this is a lie, check a list of AAA titles.

Quote:This really has no substantiation. Nor is it relevant.

Make me a list of white male characters and one of non white male characters.

Quote:Excuse me?

The vast majority of men in video games are 6ft + males with ripped six packs and ultimate Kung-Fu skills. Is this realistic? No. It's a Feminist double standard.

LOL - I can name several men in games that don't fit the beauty standard - Mr.47, Gordon Freeman are good examples - Plus men in videogames may be fit but their skills are 1000 times more relevant and important than their bodies. Female characters may have some skills but the important given to make perfect bodies is overhelming and always follows the same pattern of unrealistic beauty.

Men in games have varied beauties and not all of them fit the ideal of attractiveness - For example C.Redfield in RE5 is criticized for having excess of muscles since it's not realistic and characters like the ones pointed and others, including secondary characters (just think of Otacon from Metal gear) don't fit the ideal of beauty. The point is precisely that men can be hot but the power and traits they have are more important, while female characters have much more value attributed to their beauty and the developers care excessively about how they look.

Quote:Women have fit bodies in games because to actually run around and do backflips, you need to be in shape. Gaming is an escape fantasy.

Essentially the rest of your post has been debunked with contrary evidence; and quite frankly, is repeating the same cliche.

You have not debunked anything my friend, bringing up some conservative sources doesn't help your course. Can you find me any reliable study that actually points out impartially your claims (i.e. One that isn't biased by political viewpoints)?

Quote:Cultural Marxism is not anti-semitic. It has nothing to do with Jews. Marxism has nothing to do with Judaism. Marxism is an ideology. Judaism is a religion.

Yes it is, google cultural marxism and you'll see how many white supremacist images appear. Seriously do it.

Quote:Men's problems are not caused by gender roles --- they are caused by a number of factors, but women do abuse their power over men for sure when exploiting their gender role to take custody of children. This is a double standard the MRA fight.

Actually men's issues are caused by gender roles, ALL of them. Oh really? And why do they take custody? Because men --> Strong hardworking and breadwinners; women ---> caregivers, mothers and submissive --> Therefore women keep children because it's their job, while men work and are not good with children. Do you see the gender roles here? if so, you have to recognize that the reason women get more custody is because they are affected by double standards.

Quote:Essentially, I approve of MRA's --- and I don't think Feminism needs beta-white knight males.

I don't think the world needs MRA's and awfully sexist men.

Let's take a look at reality. MRA's:
- Claim rape is a scam by women and that fake rape accusations are more prevalent
- Complain about advantages given to women by men while they have far more advantages
- Support websites like returnofkigns that is full of sexist people
- Complain about women being evil bitches and gold diggers
- Some of them, like The Amazing Atheist, insult and ridicule victims of rape
- Think slut-shaming and insulting women is ok

Now look at this article and tell me honestly which movement is better equipped to deal with men's issues. It's not MRA's certainly - I refuse to have that group representing me. I don't need it, mostly because I'm already to favoured in society for being male. I don't have downsides that are relevant, I'll probably not be raped with so much frequency, I don't have to fit to obsessive beauty standards and diet cultures motivated by profit that exploits women, etc...

Also, check out this article that debunks MRA's completely

And also this

*walks in*

...

...

*Quickly backs out, again*

I'm simply going to have to walk away here from this specific debate. There's simply not going to be any resolve between our ideological differences.

---

(February 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Why are we asking if atheism+ bit the dust? Did something happen or is it just that membership is down?

Well from what I recall it was gaining momentum but now membership has died.

(February 8, 2015 at 7:58 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: I'm simply going to have to walk away here from this specific debate. There's simply not going to be any resolve between our ideological differences.

---

(February 8, 2015 at 7:15 pm)Faith No More Wrote: Why are we asking if atheism+ bit the dust? Did something happen or is it just that membership is down?

Well from what I recall it was gaining momentum but now membership has died.

This is not about being ideological - it's about knowing at least who you should not support. In my country there are not MRA's but the fact is they do a lot of terrible shit. The articles I linked explain it... On the other hand you're saying that this ideology known as atheism + was increasing but I see no proof of it. most atheists will probably be liberal but not too liberal, just in the middle. Someone said they were 150 or something like that members online at the most - On other atheist forums it can be something like 5000 members online. It's not comparable.

(February 8, 2015 at 8:01 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

(February 8, 2015 at 7:58 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: I'm simply going to have to walk away here from this specific debate. There's simply not going to be any resolve between our ideological differences.

---

Well from what I recall it was gaining momentum but now membership has died.

This is not about being ideological - it's about knowing at least who you should not support. In my country there are not MRA's but the fact is they do a lot of terrible shit. The articles I linked explain it... On the other hand you're saying that this ideology known as atheism + was increasing but I see no proof of it. most atheists will probably be liberal but not too liberal, just in the middle. Someone said they were 150 or something like that members online at the most - On other atheist forums it can be something like 5000 members online. It's not comparable.

It is about ideology and opinion.

If it's about knowing who you should not support, then Anita Sarkeesian, a known liar and fraud is one of them. The MRA's have never been classified as a hate group, is a testament to the illogic of the third-wave Feminists hijacking it, who attempted to list the MRA's as terrorists: http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/06/03...errorists/

I have linked a multitude of articles and videos in regards to Social Justice Warriors and what-not so I really needn't expand. All I have gathered from your posts is that you dislike Conservatives and take a different stance, you haven't really convinced me of anything, hence I see this as an ideological difference which will not resolve in agreeance.

Most Atheists are Liberals, probably because Conservatives fuck Atheists over for the religious right.

(February 8, 2015 at 8:10 pm)TheMessiah Wrote:

(February 8, 2015 at 8:01 pm)Dystopia Wrote: This is not about being ideological - it's about knowing at least who you should not support. In my country there are not MRA's but the fact is they do a lot of terrible shit. The articles I linked explain it... On the other hand you're saying that this ideology known as atheism + was increasing but I see no proof of it. most atheists will probably be liberal but not too liberal, just in the middle. Someone said they were 150 or something like that members online at the most - On other atheist forums it can be something like 5000 members online. It's not comparable.

It is about ideology and opinion.

If it's about knowing who you should not support, then Anita Sarkeesian, a known liar and fraud is one of them. The MRA's have never been classified as a hate group, is a testament to the illogic of the third-wave Feminists hijacking it.

I have linked a multitude of articles and videos in regards to Social Justice Warriors and what-not so I really needn't expand. All I have gathered from your posts is that you dislike Conservatives and take a different stance, you haven't really convinced my of anything, hence I see this as an ideological difference which will not resolve in agreeance.

Not ideological. I'm not promoting feminism in particular or any ideology - I'm going where the evidence points; and the evidence points that men have it easier and I, as a man myself that has been living in a western society, have witness personally gender roles and how they affect social perceptions - And I know for a fact that my benefits for being a man are excessively unfair. This is not guilt, it's merely acknowledging a fact, it's loving and respecting women, including my beloved companion and my mother + sister and wanting to create a more equal, more fair society for them to live in. It's empathy and sense of justice that drives me. I hate, injustice, and sexism is a lame position that reflects weak-minds

As for MRA's being a hate group - That depends on the perspective. A conservative will probably not think that but then again some white supremacist groups claim that they're not a hate group. It depends on the perspective. I've already shown you articles that debunk MRA's - If you want to defend them, be my guest, but it's a bad decision.


Most atheist are not conservatives but it's not because of religion specifically - It is because conservatism as a political ideology promotes tribalism and zero change, as well as neo-liberalism. It is something atheists don't support due to critical thinking.

(February 8, 2015 at 8:18 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

(February 8, 2015 at 8:10 pm)TheMessiah Wrote: It is about ideology and opinion.

If it's about knowing who you should not support, then Anita Sarkeesian, a known liar and fraud is one of them. The MRA's have never been classified as a hate group, is a testament to the illogic of the third-wave Feminists hijacking it.

I have linked a multitude of articles and videos in regards to Social Justice Warriors and what-not so I really needn't expand. All I have gathered from your posts is that you dislike Conservatives and take a different stance, you haven't really convinced my of anything, hence I see this as an ideological difference which will not resolve in agreeance.

Not ideological. I'm not promoting feminism in particular or any ideology - I'm going where the evidence points; and the evidence points that men have it easier and I, as a man myself that has been living in a western society, have witness personally gender roles and how they affect social perceptions - And I know for a fact that my benefits for being a man are excessively unfair. This is not guilt, it's merely acknowledging a fact, it's loving and respecting women, including my beloved companion and my mother + sister and wanting to create a more equal, more fair society for them to live in. It's empathy and sense of justice that drives me. I hate, injustice, and sexism is a lame position that reflects weak-minds

As for MRA's being a hate group - That depends on the perspective. A conservative will probably not think that but then again some white supremacist groups claim that they're not a hate group. It depends on the perspective. I've already shown you articles that debunk MRA's - If you want to defend them, be my guest, but it's a bad decision.

It is ideology, our respective ideologies and opinions are simply too far apart to come to a resolve, apart from our shared Atheism.

I hate inequality too. But I do something about it. I don't complain about it online; I donate my money to charity, I try my best to gather support to protest at foreign embassies because of the human rights/female rights issu, I atleast try to tackle problems that matter. This is why I despise third wave Feminist bloggers who don't care --- they're scammers, frauds and they do not give a rats ass about inequality and oppression, just like most proponents of Social Justice. In regards to ''men have it better than women'' --- I don't abide by that ''who's more oppressed'' logic, this video sums up my thoughts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTfxHseS5gU

I would not be so quick to call it a ''bad decision'' considering I offered you a host of examples of evidence of female video games culture not being misogynist, from actual female Gamers tweeting #NotYourShield to respected and established Feminists debunking third-wave dogma. I believe that you are being manipulatively selective with the evidence you choose to acknowledge and post.

I could post this, and say this proves that Feminists are a hate group and to identify with them is a 'bad idea' - https://beingclassicallyliberal.liberty....arguments/

I know a number of Conservative women who want to be housewives and raise children. There's nothing wrong with that.