(February 10, 2015 at 7:20 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(February 10, 2015 at 7:11 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: And we still have slavery going on today. It hasn't ended yet, and will take reorganizing communities on a local and global scale. Are you interested?

Common sense tells me it will take Christians and nonchristians, churches and governments, schools and businesses, charities and prisons all working together to handle the populations so people don't fall into poverty and get oppressed by others. It will take massive collaboration by all groups and all nations, to invest resources wisely to stop oppression and slavery, including restitution for crimes especially trafficking.

I don't think you quite get it enough... because you wouldn't be defending the bible if you know the rules about women and its very very disguising and horrible. Because well the middle east of all places follow biblical law and 13 year old girls get married and what more i should add despite there not being slavery well.. how should i put this.... if a christian nation were to exist in this age it would mirror modern day middle east. So yeah... there is nothing really good to take away from religion except the blatant obvious morals everyone should have already.

I don't think you get what I'm saying
It's not imposing anything in the Bible to try to make things true.
It's using the Bible to rebuke others using the Bible
To correct errors and to establish truth.
You use it neutrally as a tool for ppl who speak that language.

Frankly I prefer to use Constitutional principles.
Even those are supposed to be used neutrally
And not supposed to impose religions or beliefs.
The Bible is supposed to be used to check Believers against abuses by rebukes in the spirit of the laws.

(February 10, 2015 at 9:51 pm)emilynghiem Wrote:

(February 10, 2015 at 7:20 pm)dyresand Wrote: I don't think you quite get it enough... because you wouldn't be defending the bible if you know the rules about women and its very very disguising and horrible. Because well the middle east of all places follow biblical law and 13 year old girls get married and what more i should add despite there not being slavery well.. how should i put this.... if a christian nation were to exist in this age it would mirror modern day middle east. So yeah... there is nothing really good to take away from religion except the blatant obvious morals everyone should have already.

I don't think you get what I'm saying
It's not imposing anything in the Bible to try to make things true.
It's using the Bible to rebuke others using the Bible
To correct errors and to establish truth.
You use it neutrally as a tool for ppl who speak that language.

Frankly I prefer to use Constitutional principles.
Even those are supposed to be used neutrally
And not supposed to impose religions or beliefs.
The Bible is supposed to be used to check Believers against abuses by rebukes in the spirit of the laws.

Okay so you are saying the whole bible is true when in fact its just made up stories. Back then woman were treated like objects and not even equivalent to a man. So woman are treated still like objects but more or less middle eastern countries do and even some people mainly theists do here in the states. The bible contradicts itself from the start on the genesis account.

Satan is using the bible to perpetuate evil though. He just wants you to think that it's actually doing good.

He is very good at tricking people.

Interesting, that's two people who don't care that they are worshipping Satan

(February 10, 2015 at 10:22 pm)dyresand Wrote:

(February 10, 2015 at 9:51 pm)emilynghiem Wrote: I don't think you get what I'm saying
It's not imposing anything in the Bible to try to make things true.
It's using the Bible to rebuke others using the Bible
To correct errors and to establish truth.
You use it neutrally as a tool for ppl who speak that language.

Frankly I prefer to use Constitutional principles.
Even those are supposed to be used neutrally
And not supposed to impose religions or beliefs.
The Bible is supposed to be used to check Believers against abuses by rebukes in the spirit of the laws.

Okay so you are saying the whole bible is true when in fact its just made up stories. Back then woman were treated like objects and not even equivalent to a man. So woman are treated still like objects but more or less middle eastern countries do and even some people mainly theists do here in the states. The bible contradicts itself from the start on the genesis account.

Dear D:
Is the math system true? Doesn't it depend how you use it?
Is the "Texas Rules of Civil Procedure" true? Doesn't it depend how you use it and what outcome you get?

You are already assuming content, but I am looking at the raw system.
Whatever content you are mixing in, I'm not counting that as the universal laws used to rebuke people. If I were you I would drop that and start from neutral.

Once you start with the raw system, THEN you can APPLY it toward addressing slavery or Bible history, etc.

You can't use the raw scientific method if you already mixed some other content in there and start with skewed assumptions attached to the steps.

Maybe I'm not saying this right, I apologize.

I am using the Bible to hold Christians to the "process of rebuke"
in Matthew 18:15-20, James 5:16, scriptures on removing beams from their eyes before helping neighbors, forgiving others if they want their faults forgiven, etc.

I can't even GET to the content you are bringing up, if we can't even agree on the basic rules of how to redress grievances.

That part is universal and can be applied to redressing issues with any other content or history, like slavery etc.

But if you can't even agree on the ground rules of how to address each other, no content is going to get straightened out anyway.

Sorry this wasn't clear. It isn't clear to Christians either who keep going into it wrong, too. First step is agreeing to redress issues as EQUALS and not fight to reject the other.

Frankly this is why I gave up trying to use this because not even Christians were following it. I went back to the natural law system of free speech, right to petition and due process where you don't "assume guilt until proven innocent" but both parties agree to start at neutral.

If you can't agree to that, you're FU anyway no matter what you're discussing even if you are right.

(February 11, 2015 at 2:55 am)robvalue Wrote: Interesting, that's two people who don't care that they are worshipping Satan

And one more interested in using sophistic word games to make it seem that by Satan, you actually mean god, rather than just using simple context clues to realize that you're talking about the literal devil of his religion, and not some relativistic Satan concept that's different for everyone.

(February 11, 2015 at 2:55 am)robvalue Wrote: Satan is using the bible to perpetuate evil though. He just wants you to think that it's actually doing good.

He is very good at tricking people.

Interesting, that's two people who don't care that they are worshipping Satan

No, because you can CHECK your interpretation by resolving any conflicts with other people, and make sure all people agree on what is true and good to make the best decision.

So that is the same as what is happening now.

The problems happen when you DON'T listen to people objecting and telling you there is something wrong.

You can take even messed up information and fix it.
Doesn't mean you "worship" that thing or that source. Just check against all other sources and correct any errors until you establish consistent truth.

NOTE: the ways "Satan" can manipulate and perpetuate evil is if there is any
division or ill will, unforgiven conflicts, fear or greed, etc. Again, all these faults can be checked by working in consensus with others who can help you catch where you veer off.
If information is true, then it doesn't matter what source you get it from because you should verify it anyway with all other sources and make sure it is true first.
And if your interpretation is false, it doesn't matter if you are misinterpreting God Satan angels or demons because that idea is false, and again, can be corrected by reconciling with all other sources.

Ah, but the problem is, Satan is tricking you into saying those things. Satan is really evil.

Can you prove Satan isn't tricking you?

[It appears I'll have to come clean and explicitly say this is a parody thread, but one with an important message. I thought this was obvious, but hey. The message seems to have been entirely missed so far.]

(February 11, 2015 at 3:07 am)emilynghiem Wrote: Dear D:
Is the math system true? Doesn't it depend how you use it?
Is the "Texas Rules of Civil Procedure" true? Doesn't it depend how you use it and what outcome you get?

You are already assuming content, but I am looking at the raw system.
Whatever content you are mixing in, I'm not counting that as the universal laws used to rebuke people. If I were you I would drop that and start from neutral.

Once you start with the raw system, THEN you can APPLY it toward addressing slavery or Bible history, etc.

You can't use the raw scientific method if you already mixed some other content in there and start with skewed assumptions attached to the steps.

Maybe I'm not saying this right, I apologize.

I am using the Bible to hold Christians to the "process of rebuke"
in Matthew 18:15-20, James 5:16, scriptures on removing beams from their eyes before helping neighbors, forgiving others if they want their faults forgiven, etc.

I can't even GET to the content you are bringing up, if we can't even agree on the basic rules of how to redress grievances.

That part is universal and can be applied to redressing issues with any other content or history, like slavery etc.

But if you can't even agree on the ground rules of how to address each other, no content is going to get straightened out anyway.

Sorry this wasn't clear. It isn't clear to Christians either who keep going into it wrong, too. First step is agreeing to redress issues as EQUALS and not fight to reject the other.

Frankly this is why I gave up trying to use this because not even Christians were following it. I went back to the natural law system of free speech, right to petition and due process where you don't "assume guilt until proven innocent" but both parties agree to start at neutral.

If you can't agree to that, you're FU anyway no matter what you're discussing even if you are right.

You know i could keep on going all day and arguing with you but i won't. The big thing is and forever will be for a religion like christianity and all abrahamic religions is well there is too many secs to many interpretations from the original source material. What the real issue is that people over the years added their own stories to the bible and stories i have to say are clearly copied off of other older religions. You have noahs ark well other religions had flood stories they took it from The Epic Of Gilgamesh and you know what its real identical to that story. jesus he is a copy of mythra and the religion name was mythras. There is no real truth in the bible because many people died over many non believers and people who followed other religions. The christian bible pardon my french does not believe in the equality of men and woman.

because well your god is accepting of polygamy
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Bibl...-Polygamy/

because god is all loving right.....
Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB
well you are supposed to kill me Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT
what was that about slaves? Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT (sure its still a issue in modern day its not as bad when people were barbaric in nature believing in lies that really messed us up)

I'll leave you on this note so i am a sinner because two fucking jerk off's got tricked by a talking snake and in turn i am a sinner because of that.... yeah no as far as i know snakes can't talk.

(February 11, 2015 at 3:47 am)robvalue Wrote: Ah, but the problem is, Satan is tricking you into saying those things. Satan is really evil.

Can you prove Satan isn't tricking you?

[It appears I'll have to come clean and explicitly say this is a parody thread, but one with an important message. I thought this was obvious, but hey. The message seems to have been entirely missed so far.]

Yes you can prove what is truth by consensus with all other people, and that's all you CAN do. The main thing is not to be manipulated by fear or unforgiven conflicts dividing people. As long as you can forgive even the devil or demons, you don't get sucked into any manipulation. No fear of the unknown, no fear of change or losing control to outside authority or coercion/manipulation by others, no fear of conflict or confrontation that can't be resolved. If you have no fear, but understand any conflicts can be brought out and resolved, then you can figure out truth by confirming with all other sources.

BTW this is a very astute line of questioning and reasoning. Very good way to bring out the core issues. If someone is not as detached as Buddha or Jesus then they well might react emotionally and not rationally, and possibly "give in the to the dark side of the force" and start attacking the source. Very interesting test of faith and patience, if someone really has thought it all the way through or not. Very cool!

P.S. I guess the #1 thing that might give you away is whether you counsel on the side of division and rejection to explain away conflicts, or whether you counsel on the side of resolving conflicts to establish truth that doesn't negate or exclude any side. At some point, someone who is counseling to divide CANNOT resolve conflicts, but only those who seek truly universal truth can offer such avenues. So you keep resolving conflicts, and by process of elimination, only that which is consistent and resolves all other conflicts ends up being the universal level, to the degree that humans can establish it given our limited means which is finite in comparison.

(February 11, 2015 at 11:31 am)emilynghiem Wrote: Yes you can prove what is truth by consensus with all other people.

You mean only christians anyone one else really is going to say you believe in the wrong thing.