Also, we assume his motivations are actually "good". We have no way of knowing this. Of course it could make people think whatever it wanted about its motivations. And weirdly, it doesn't even choose to make everyone thinks it is "good". It makes me think it absolutely sucks, so it's not actually trying to hide the fact that it's unclear.

(February 14, 2015 at 6:22 am)robvalue Wrote: Also, we assume his motivations are actually "good". We have no way of knowing this. Of course it could make people think whatever it wanted about it's motivations. And weirdly, it doesn't even choose to make everyone thinks he is "good". He makes me think he absolutely sucks, so he's not actually trying to hide the fact that it's unclear.

Again. Good is a human concept. God is infinite. Doesn't measure. What we understand as good applies to ourselves and the way we act. We have no basis to judge god's actions, because we don't understand them.

Yeah. Except God can suck my balls.

You're playing some mighty fine Devils advocate there, you're doing a better job of it than the resident theists do

Sure, there "could be" some infinite, whatever, being. It could be possible. We certainly don't know that it is possible.

(February 14, 2015 at 6:26 am)robvalue Wrote: Yeah. Except God can suck my balls.

Out of arguments?

(February 14, 2015 at 6:26 am)robvalue Wrote: You're playing some mighty fine Devils advocate there, you're doing a better job of it than the resident theists do

Give it two more days and they'll be bananadancing their asses off. One in particular.

(February 14, 2015 at 6:26 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure, there "could be" some infinite, whatever, being. It could be possible. We certainly don't know that it is possible.

It's not about possibility. To me god is just a different way of desribing the universe, like science is to you. Except my approach is more spiritual and yours is entirely technical. I of course don't mean the biblical god or any other human invention.

Out of arguments? Resorting to insults, me? :p

Nah, I just edited in my actual argument. It's all hypothetical and contingent on unknowable information.

So if it is possible, and it does exist, then sure, we couldn't understand it. But there's absolutely no reason to assume that it is possible, or it does exist like that.

Christians sure do make an unknowable being sound extremely simple when they describe it. He just wants us to be happy, aww! No wait, he wants us to suck his balls. Why, again?

(February 14, 2015 at 6:30 am)robvalue Wrote: Christians sure do make an unknowable being sound extremely simple when they describe it. He just wants us to be happy, aww! No wait, he wants us to suck his balls. Why, again?

The thing is, they claim god is knowable. That's where they make the mistake. They give him a name, a face, even a sort of personality. It's why it sounds so ridiculous: it is. It's like calling gravity Bob and claiming he pulls you down from cliffs, because he's an asshole.

Right! He seems very knowable. They know he is present, they even claim to fucking talk to him sometimes. They know his motivations are "good". They know why he is so soft on rapists.

But when he does something bogus like kills everyone with an earthquake, he moves in "mysterious ways we can't understand". If we can't understand them, how come you've been telling me all about them for the last 13 hours? Who are you again, and how did you get into my house?

(February 14, 2015 at 6:39 am)robvalue Wrote: But when he does something bogus like kills everyone with an earthquake, he moves in "mysterious ways we can't understand". If we can't understand them, how come you've been telling me all about them for the last 13 hours? Who are you again, and how did you get into my house?

Yup. Hypocrisy.

Now let's leave christians and get back to my arguments.

OK. Which are... something about a magic anus?

(February 14, 2015 at 6:45 am)robvalue Wrote: OK. Which are... something about a magic anus?

No... that's vorlon. I wouldn't dare to try and steal his schtick.

(February 14, 2015 at 5:02 am)Norman Humann Wrote: The option that I incline to, however, would be that god isn't an entity, like YHWH or Allah which are obviously human constructs, but everything. Synonymous with the universe, the force that pushed everything into existence and further evolved it. All depictions and all the attempts to humanise the concept of god, make it more relatable - religions are faulty and flawed, designed to control people.