This is also similar to sins tha you have no control over. thought crime is a good example, because you can't keep from thinking things. You can only refrain from acting on your thoughts. So since thinking about killing someone is as bad as actually doing it in Yahweh's eyes, you'd have to continually ask for forgiveness anyway. If you were genuinely sorry for every bad thought you had, you wouldn't be able to live your life. You'd go catatonic unless you found a way to make it stop bothering you so much. eventually you'd be begging forgiveness for something you'd done a trillion times over, and not really be genuinely sorry about it.

Any system that centers around what you say, instead of what you do, is flawed. Yahweh doesn't care about how many good things you did, compared to how many bad things. Only that you're very sorry for being born evil.

Right. And things that are "sins" are not actually immoral things necessarily, they are just things that upsets god, for some reason. So it''s nothing to do with living a good life.

And I totally agree, the idea of just being forgiven means you can do pretty much what you want and get away with it by sucking up later. It's absolutely ridiculous anyone could take this seriously. But since the OT orders death for just about anything, I don't know how this is worked into the fold. I suppose you just seek repentance while you're being stoned to death for being an unruly kid.

(February 16, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Chad32 Wrote: This is also similar to sins tha you have no control over. thought crime is a good example, because you can't keep from thinking things. You can only refrain from acting on your thoughts. So since thinking about killing someone is as bad as actually doing it in Yahweh's eyes, you'd have to continually ask for forgiveness anyway. If you were genuinely sorry for every bad thought you had, you wouldn't be able to live your life. You'd go catatonic unless you found a way to make it stop bothering you so much. eventually you'd be begging forgiveness for something you'd done a trillion times over, and not really be genuinely sorry about it.

Oh yeah. I was raised Lutheran. I remember the confession we said every Sunday.

"... and have sinned against you in thought, word, and deed, by what we have done and what we have left undone. We justly deserve your present and eternal punishment."

Pretty much existing is enough to get you thrown into hell, and the apologists would have me believe that I have to be continually repentant to avoid that. Either no one gets to heaven, or this loophole is apt. Either way you slice it, the system doesn't generate anything resembling sane results.

(February 16, 2015 at 12:45 pm)Chad32 Wrote: Any system that centers around what you say, instead of what you do, is flawed. Yahweh doesn't care about how many good things you did, compared to how many bad things. Only that you're very sorry for being born evil.

And that you swore the correct oath of fealty before you died. That's apparently super fucking important.

You gotta spin the denomination wheel right at the end and you got a less than 1 in 40,000 chance of getting the right one.

And that's assuming christianity is right and not any other of the possible infinite religions.

Whoops.

Maybe if you're "lucky" Calvinism is right and God chose you to be elect and not reprobate. :p

The only reason you ever need to repent more than once is because you don't know exactly when you'll die. if you're lucky enough not o be killed suddenly, just repent on your death bed, or afer your last meal in death row, or whatever, and you're good.

I'm glad I live in a country that doesn't use that warped sense of justice. Or a least it isn't supposed to.

Also, you repent for entirely selfish reasons. It's nothing to do with actually being sorry.

(February 16, 2015 at 1:17 pm)robvalue Wrote: Also, you repent for entirely selfish reasons. It's nothing to do with actually being sorry.

Oh really? Must've been doing it wrong, then, because the amount of guilt surrounding a confessional makes the air dense.

Sure. Well, you may actually be sorry, but you are apologising to the wrong person.