Drich, suppose I spend a year coming to your house on a daily basis, walking in your front door, taking a shit on your dining table, and then leaving. Not only is there no law against my doing this, there are actually laws that enable me, encourage me, and reward me for doing it. Astonishingly, there are also laws which not only prevent you from trying to stop me, but offer fines and imprisonment if you even complain about my actions.

At the end of the year, through the work of other people tired of having me shit all over their furniture, laws are enacted which not only make it a crime for me to continue with my behavior (prolly called something like, 'The Malicious Fecal Distribution Act') and require me to clean and disinfect your table, but also give you first crack and a discounted rate on cleaning supplies and bog rolls for the rest of your life.

THAT is why there are reserved seats at the table.

Boru

(March 10, 2015 at 4:01 pm)NuclearJaguar Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 3:52 pm)rexbeccarox Wrote: Race and culture are not the same thing, and can easily be mutually exclusive. What is the definition of a "white" person? Or better yet, what's the definition of a "black" person? How about "Hispanic"? My culture as someone who would be considered "white" is nothing like that of a "white" person living in Rich Hill, Missouri (I just watched the documentary). What about someone from Haiti vs. someone from Zambia? You'd consider them both "black", probably, but what do their cultures have in common? Similarly, what race are Filipino people?

I completely agree.

The problem is, people throw around these terms "white", "black", "Hispanic" etc as though all of these groups are monolithic homogeneous ethnic groups.

In reality, if you take white people for example, you've got a massively diverse group of people who practice different religions (or no religion), speak different languages, have different values and cultural practices, and very different histories. Go to Greece, then go to Sweden, the culture shock will smack you in the face. I'm of Maltese, Irish and German descent, and within my own family I've seen these differences. Same goes for Black people, Asians, or any other "race".

Thank you both for saying this. I was trying to figure out how to word the exact same thing but you both explained it much berter than me

I hate the idea that the past is worth clinging to. It is worth remembering as a history lesson, but it is not worth clinging to it if it props up bigotry, sexism and xenophobia. Words like "cultural" and "tradition" and "religion" are not looking forward, those are all excuses to cling to the past. What should be important to humanity is fostering civility, not protecting an ego.

True. In fact, what we describe as white is a diverse group. Portuguese, Spanish and Italians are more dark skinned than Germans, British or Finish people. If you go to Africa I'm sure you can find over 100000+ ethnic tribal groups, each with a different ethnicity and culture.


Race can be tied to culture, but it depends on the case. A black person raised by a black family can turn different than a black person raised by a white family - A Japanese raised with Indians with turn out different than a Japanese raised by other Japanese people.

(March 10, 2015 at 6:58 pm)Nope Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 4:01 pm)NuclearJaguar Wrote: I completely agree.

The problem is, people throw around these terms "white", "black", "Hispanic" etc as though all of these groups are monolithic homogeneous ethnic groups.

In reality, if you take white people for example, you've got a massively diverse group of people who practice different religions (or no religion), speak different languages, have different values and cultural practices, and very different histories. Go to Greece, then go to Sweden, the culture shock will smack you in the face. I'm of Maltese, Irish and German descent, and within my own family I've seen these differences. Same goes for Black people, Asians, or any other "race".

Thank you both for saying this. I was trying to figure out how to word the exact same thing but you both explained it much berter than me

Thanks Nope

(March 10, 2015 at 6:59 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I hate the idea that the past is worth clinging to. It is worth remembering as a history lesson, but it is not worth clinging to it if it props up bigotry, sexism and xenophobia. Words like "cultural" and "tradition" and "religion" are not looking forward, those are all excuses to cling to the past. What should be important to humanity is fostering civility, not protecting an ego.

Not sure what's the problem with culture and tradition, it's something that serves as a uniting factor for people - Race is different because no one chooses race. I despise culture and tradition if it's harmful, but if it's benignant I don't see the problem.



I'm actually curious why America calls some people Hispanic/Latino - Is it because they speak Spanish? From what I've seen in movies it's usually brown skinned people who come from south america and mexico

(March 10, 2015 at 7:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 6:59 pm)Brian37 Wrote: I hate the idea that the past is worth clinging to. It is worth remembering as a history lesson, but it is not worth clinging to it if it props up bigotry, sexism and xenophobia. Words like "cultural" and "tradition" and "religion" are not looking forward, those are all excuses to cling to the past. What should be important to humanity is fostering civility, not protecting an ego.

Not sure what's the problem with culture and tradition, it's something that serves as a uniting factor for people - Race is different because no one chooses race. I despise culture and tradition if it's harmful, but if it's benignant I don't see the problem.

Our species is tribal, we don't just base that on religion, we base that also on politics and business. When I say the past is not as important, I mean that. We have never been a separate species. Our future is more important than the past. The past is important to remember, but nothing to cling to outside a history lesson.

(March 10, 2015 at 7:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 7:02 pm)Dystopia Wrote: Not sure what's the problem with culture and tradition, it's something that serves as a uniting factor for people - Race is different because no one chooses race. I despise culture and tradition if it's harmful, but if it's benignant I don't see the problem.

Our species is tribal, we don't just base that on religion, we base that also on politics and business. When I say the past is not as important, I mean that. We have never been a separate species. Our future is more important than the past. The past is important to remember, but nothing to cling to outside a history lesson.

Yes our species values tribalism to some degree... So? The past is a good lesson for what you should do and what you shouldn't. Culture is a very ambiguous concept to discuss, culture can be almost anything, and despite the talk about cultural diversity I believe we are becoming more homogeneous with globalization, so only minimal cultural differences will persist

(March 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Drich Wrote: My truck was assembled in Saltillo Mexico so I'm willing to bet the farm on brown... Or what's the PC term? desert tan.

So, I'm guessing you missed my point -- to wit, that her color is irrelevant to the build quality, meaning that the employer has no appeal to real-world issues in defending their hiring practices if such are racist.

(March 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Drich Wrote: What does it matter to you how much a bigot has to research to find a white only product?

What matters to me is that a non-bigot should not have to do research in order to avoid funding bigotry. What matters to me is that everyone in this country should have an equal opportunity to land a job.

If you don't want to hire black folk in your business, buy a Congressman and get done with it.

(March 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Drich Wrote: Plus I'm sure as per the brand fubu, race exclusive products would advertize their racialy pure product.

And you seem very comfortable with that approach.

(March 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Drich Wrote: No I'd start my own business... That's the thing for every dollar a bigot has and wants to spend there is another not tied to a bigot who is willing to buy a similar product.

Bullshit and applebutter. You cry at the first sight of resistance against your dear little faith, whining and moaning like a five-dollar whore.

(March 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm)Drich Wrote: I'm just wondering what would happen if goverment let people do what they wanted and let the cream automatically rise and the waste fall.. If that would not solve our problems. Granted it didn't 100 years ago when the man owned everything, but now I think we have an eccletic base that could both serve the biggots and the rest alike. so why not let 'evolution' decide what is fit for humanity and what is not. Our philosiphical approach is obviously not working. It only leads to more govermental oversight.

Yeah, you answered your own question, and aren't smart enough to realize it. In the Gilded Age of laissez-faire capitalism, we had racist hiring, child-labor abuse, events like the Triangle Shirtwaist fire. I'm a recovering libertarian, and I certainly agree that that government is best which governs least, but the fact is that as society gets more complex, least is necessarily a rising variable.

I don't think you get it. But then again, you're on record advocating slavery as a good thing, so it's not like you're a terribly thoughtful person.

(March 10, 2015 at 7:10 pm)Dystopia Wrote:

(March 10, 2015 at 7:07 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Our species is tribal, we don't just base that on religion, we base that also on politics and business. When I say the past is not as important, I mean that. We have never been a separate species. Our future is more important than the past. The past is important to remember, but nothing to cling to outside a history lesson.

Yes our species values tribalism to some degree... So? The past is a good lesson for what you should do and what you shouldn't. Culture is a very ambiguous concept to discuss, culture can be almost anything, and despite the talk about cultural diversity I believe we are becoming more homogeneous with globalization, so only minimal cultural differences will persist

I hate the word "cultural". It makes excuses for tribalism. There is not one group on the face of the planet that is not out for the same thing. It is a watered down version of religious and political grouping. I am under no illusions that humans wont disagree or flock to like minded people. I am however tired of the notion that labels magically make us out for different things. We are all out for the same thing.