(March 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm)AtlasS2 Wrote:

(March 18, 2015 at 10:30 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: But for real. You need to lay off the "Social terrorist" bullshit. People disagreeing with your views and pointing out absurd ideas is not a form of terrorism, it's called discussion and debate.

On this point no & hell no.
Mocking the writer & making fun of him does indeed rise to the level of social terrorism.
Oh well, it also pushes the other side to become more stubborn.

Explain to me why do you think there wasn't any kind of social terrorism in this thread ????

Irrational

Since the verse directly guided to the spherical earth, then the common Muslim who doesn't know any science, did also believe in it. That's how it became widespread.

The scholars' attempts alone weren't the only key. We can argue that the models & designs along with the theories (scientifically) were based on greek contribution, but for the common man, it was all in the Quran.

That is the point that wasn't affected throughout this topic ; I also believe it was proved over & over.

Brian37


From my point of view ; an illiterate man in the desert saying that verse, would make me think twice.
If it didn't do the trick for you, then mmmmm..yeah ; different opinions..
The Quran is not an astronomy book, neither a biology article.

That is where you are fucking up "my point of view". Again, everyone argues that.

Universal scientific understanding is when you take a claim, put it through a common method outside your personal wishes, then hand that claim to people with no horse in the race(peer review). If they say "something is wrong here" you start over. If they come back with "this works" then you have something.

Unless you are doing that you are not objective.

There is NOTHING in any antiquated book of myth of ANY label that has any modern understanding that science knows today. Making an observation does not mean you know what you are observing, and it does not justify one god or one god club over another.

Christian "My book says so, science makes my god club the only valid club"

Muslim, "My book says so science makes my god club the only valid club"

Jews, "My book says so science makes my god club the only valid club"

Hindus, "My ancient writings say this, so that makes my club valid"

Buddhists, "My writings say this so that makes my club valid"

Yet none of these groups are willing to put their claims under a neutral test and merely retrofit science after the fact to justify their social clubs and superstitions.

Our species ability to gap fill and ability to make false claims is what is going on. Our modern knowledge of science is completely club and label independent.

(March 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm)AtlasS2 Wrote: Mocking the writer & making fun of him does indeed rise to the level of social terrorism.

(March 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(March 18, 2015 at 12:16 pm)AtlasS2 Wrote: Mocking the writer & making fun of him does indeed rise to the level of social terrorism.

Not sure who that was aimed at

Quote:Mocking the writer & making fun of him does indeed rise to the level of social terrorism.

Being mocked only means you got offended. "Social terrorism" is when you bully people into submission out of ego and fear of being wrong. Human rights are a given, but ideas, be they political religious or business models do not deserve blind value or taboos.

There are really oppressed humans in the world. Minority Muslims living under other Muslims, Christians, Jews, gays and atheist who ARE really oppressed depending where in the world they live. But if you are in a place where you are not forced to partake, and your government is not arresting you for making any claim on any subject, and someone is merely blasting it, YOU ARE NOT being bullied. It would merely mean you got your claim picked on.

It might be wise for those who thing blasphemy is a crime to talk to people who actually have been victims of mobs and government before they complain here in the west.

Uh, Brian, it was aimed at the post to which I was directly replying.

(March 18, 2015 at 12:38 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Uh, Brian, it was aimed at the post to which I was directly replying.

No problem, still wanted to add to it to take away the false victim status religious people hide behind to avoid critics.

Rights are a given. But credibility of what someone might claim is still a separate issue.

Brian37

Oh well I also shared my ideas with you didn't I ? to be as objective as possible.
And I did start over ; hence demolish the whole theory : the Quran is not the first book to say earth is spherical.
I didn't fuck your pov I actually agree on it !

Quote:Being mocked only means you got offended. "Social terrorism" is when you bully people into submission out of ego and fear of being wrong. Human rights are a given, but ideas, be they political religious or business models do not deserve blind value or taboos.

There are really oppressed humans in the world. Minority Muslims living under other Muslims, Christians, Jews, gays and atheist who ARE really oppressed depending where in the world they live. But if you are in a place where you are not forced to partake, and your government is not arresting you for making any claim on any subject, and someone is merely blasting it, YOU ARE NOT being bullied. It would merely mean you got your claim picked on.

It might be wise for those who thing blasphemy is a crime to talk to people who actually have been victims of mobs and government before they complain here in the west.

Mocking others is a type of that !
and again, if I mocked the idea of homosexuality for example, it will be a total different case.

The types of oppression you spoke about (which I'm going through btw) are not social terrorism, they are a crime against humanity. Yet, the mocking isn't actually better.

Heck, go see what bullying & mocking does to people, some turn into twisted motherfuckers and go on killing rampages. It is a nasty habit, that doesn't differ a lot from being a crime against yourself before it becomes a crime against others..

Mocking is a type of bullying -__-. Do you remember that fat kid in school who committed suicide ?

FatAndFaithless

-____-

(March 18, 2015 at 2:33 pm)AtlasS2 Wrote: Brian37

Oh well I also shared my ideas with you didn't I ? to be as objective as possible.
And I did start over ; hence demolish the whole theory : the Quran is not the first book to say earth is spherical.
I didn't fuck your pov I actually agree on it !

Quote:Being mocked only means you got offended. "Social terrorism" is when you bully people into submission out of ego and fear of being wrong. Human rights are a given, but ideas, be they political religious or business models do not deserve blind value or taboos.

There are really oppressed humans in the world. Minority Muslims living under other Muslims, Christians, Jews, gays and atheist who ARE really oppressed depending where in the world they live. But if you are in a place where you are not forced to partake, and your government is not arresting you for making any claim on any subject, and someone is merely blasting it, YOU ARE NOT being bullied. It would merely mean you got your claim picked on.

It might be wise for those who thing blasphemy is a crime to talk to people who actually have been victims of mobs and government before they complain here in the west.

Mocking others is a type of that !
and again, if I mocked the idea of homosexuality for example, it will be a total different case.

The types of oppression you spoke about (which I'm going through btw) are not social terrorism, they are a crime against humanity. Yet, the mocking isn't actually better.

Heck, go see what bullying & mocking does to people, some turn into twisted motherfuckers and go on killing rampages. It is a nasty habit, that doesn't differ a lot from being a crime against yourself before it becomes a crime against others..

Mocking is a type of bullying -__-. Do you remember that fat kid in school who committed suicide ?

FatAndFaithless

-____-

No it is not. Our species goes about civility the wrong way and confuses blasphemy with bullying. It is precisely because people protect their egos instead of self introspection that criticism and blasphemy are needed.

EXAMPLE

This is not bullying.

Person A "The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Person B. "Bullshit, the Yankees play baseball".

It only becomes bullying when you never allow the person to make the claim. It becomes bullying when the person making the claim has no way out of the situation. Now imagine that person A on top of making that absurd claim, decided to start a political party or religion based on the absurd claim "The Yankees won the Superbowl". Now imagine if that leader, political or religious forced you to never speak ill of such a claim. That society of Yankee lovers would bully anyone who didn't subscribe.

Now bullying does exist even in the west. It happens in the workplace and in schools, places people have no choice but to be. One comment in neutral place where people can part company is not bullying. It is when the behavior is repeated and the other has no way out. That goes with sexual harassment as well.

But merely saying "bullshit" is not a crime nor should it be. You do not help oppressed people in those places by insisting that insults are at the same level as being arrested by the state or murdered by a mob or murdered by the state.

None of what I said there is some sort of call to be a dick to others in every given situation 100% of your life. The problem with insisting no one every speak ill of others claims or beliefs is that everyone can think of a reason to silence others in this case. You cant do that because everyone has an idea of what is offensive and if you give that power to a political party or a religion, they can turn around and silence you.

I am glad Susan B offended White Christian men by refusing to fit their social norms. I am glad Galileo offended the Church. I am glad former Muslim Ayaan Hersi Ali offended sexist Muslim men.

If you allow other people to set up taboos you are giving them power over you. Common law dictates in the west that we cannot act out in violence or call to violence. But no one has a right to decide for everyone what is offensive. PC is a very dangerous game for all parties involved. "Bullying" can only depend on the context of the situation.

Someone saying that your ideas are wrong, even to the point of flatly calling them bullshit, is not social terrorism. Full stop. Especially when, in calling them bullshit, reasonable explanations for why they're bullshit are presented. If your belief system can't handle a little surface level scrutiny, maybe instead of labeling others as terrorists in an effort to discredit and shame them into silence, you can perform some introspection and compare what they say against those beliefs and figure out which is more logical, hmmm?

And there's a huge difference between mocking an idea, one which is either false or irrelevant, and mocking people, so your example of homosexuals is a poor one. These people exist, and homosexuality is a natural state of being (despite whatever your holy book may say).

Fair enough, Atlas. If I hurt your feelings, I apologize.

(March 18, 2015 at 3:47 pm)Brian37 Wrote: No it is not. Our species goes about civility the wrong way and confuses blasphemy with bullying. It is precisely because people protect their egos instead of self introspection that criticism and blasphemy are needed.

EXAMPLE

This is not bullying.

Person A "The New York Yankees won the Superbowl".

Person B. "Bullshit, the Yankees play baseball".

It only becomes bullying when you never allow the person to make the claim. It becomes bullying when the person making the claim has no way out of the situation. Now imagine that person A on top of making that absurd claim, decided to start a political party or religion based on the absurd claim "The Yankees won the Superbowl". Now imagine if that leader, political or religious forced you to never speak ill of such a claim. That society of Yankee lovers would bully anyone who didn't subscribe.

Now bullying does exist even in the west. It happens in the workplace and in schools, places people have no choice but to be. One comment in neutral place where people can part company is not bullying. It is when the behavior is repeated and the other has no way out. That goes with sexual harassment as well.

But merely saying "bullshit" is not a crime nor should it be. You do not help oppressed people in those places by insisting that insults are at the same level as being arrested by the state or murdered by a mob or murdered by the state.

None of what I said there is some sort of call to be a dick to others in every given situation 100% of your life. The problem with insisting no one every speak ill of others claims or beliefs is that everyone can think of a reason to silence others in this case. You cant do that because everyone has an idea of what is offensive and if you give that power to a political party or a religion, they can turn around and silence you.

I am glad Susan B offended White Christian men by refusing to fit their social norms. I am glad Galileo offended the Church. I am glad former Muslim Ayaan Hersi Ali offended sexist Muslim men.

If you allow other people to set up taboos you are giving them power over you. Common law dictates in the west that we cannot act out in violence or call to violence. But no one has a right to decide for everyone what is offensive. PC is a very dangerous game for all parties involved. "Bullying" can only depend on the context of the situation.

By written definition proposed for a seminar you might be correct, but I only judge by emotions in here. I'm that naive.

I judged it like this instead : anything said intentionally, that causes a person to doubt something he/she has no control over (example : parents, race, intelligence, weight, height ...etc) is a type of social terrorism, because once the person starts doubting, they shall also doubt their relationship with the society.

Calling somebody who is petite in size "gay" or "lol small penis", might for example cause that person to doubt himself in front of women -if he was a hetro-. The doubt turns into a complex. Thus, with one small word, you might destroy the future of a human.

Calling somebody fat piggy, might for example cause her to doubt her beauty, and depress her into a gridlock of self hate which would develop into a complex that would prevent her from living & having fun like the rest of the girls, that would result in her eating more, gets hit by diabetes. Thus, you might destroy the future of a human.

That's how I usually see it.

KevinM1

The Quran contains many verses about criticism, and that it's very expected to get mocked for the belief.
Of course it's not a case of inability to handle the mockery, it's about the person.

Irrational

It's fine dude. My skin is pretty thick :p