(March 20, 2015 at 4:24 pm)RobertE Wrote: So, what are your thoughts, if any at all?

You were honest, you shocked her and she has probably shared the story of your encounter with a hundred other people. Seeds have been sown and some will fall on fertile soil, some on rocky soil. That's all I can add.

I've seen many theists display their judgement of same sex marriage on here, and even homosexuality in general. Their "reasoning" comes off as a confused mess of bigotry, religious righteousness and appeals to "nature".

(March 20, 2015 at 6:10 pm)RobertE Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Mohammed married a 9-year-old. That pretty much makes him a pedophile, all special pleading aside ... no matter his motivation.

If, as we like to claim that all religions are false and just stories, then he couldn't have because he didn't exist.

This is sloppy logic. Simply because I think of Islam as false doesn't mean that I think Mohammed didn't exist.

(March 20, 2015 at 6:10 pm)RobertE Wrote: On the otherhand, I am sure he was thrown out for this exact reason and founded Islam after. Remember, and you probably know this already, Allah is God in Islam, but he is also Allah in Christianism too. Either way, all Abrahamic religions follow the same God (or Allah), whichever you prefer.

Are you saying that he was Christian, or Jewish, prior to marrying a child, and that he was excommunicated for the same? And you're "sure" that he went on to found Islam afterwards? How sure are you? Based on what sources?

And yes, I'm aware of the commonality of the Abrahamic god amongst the three faiths.

(March 21, 2015 at 3:47 am)Parkers Tan Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 6:10 pm)RobertE Wrote: If, as we like to claim that all religions are false and just stories, then he couldn't have because he didn't exist.

This is sloppy logic. Simply because I think of Islam as false doesn't mean that I think Mohammed didn't exist.

(March 20, 2015 at 6:10 pm)RobertE Wrote: On the otherhand, I am sure he was thrown out for this exact reason and founded Islam after. Remember, and you probably know this already, Allah is God in Islam, but he is also Allah in Christianism too. Either way, all Abrahamic religions follow the same God (or Allah), whichever you prefer.

Are you saying that he was Christian, or Jewish, prior to marrying a child, and that he was excommunicated for the same? And you're "sure" that he went on to found Islam afterwards? How sure are you? Based on what sources?

And yes, I'm aware of the commonality of the Abrahamic god amongst the three faiths.

1. Why do you think I introduced my cost with a conditional? "If" is such an important word.

2. Did you actually read my introduction, if so, you would have noticed that I did clearly state that my knowledge is somewhat limited in this field and that is why I am here, to add my opinions to the debate, and if necessary, when corrected, to change and correct my facts with regards to the responses I got.

There are hadiths specifically banning it.

The quran talks about not doing what the people of lut did, I've heard some homosexuals claiming these verses are concerning rape and not homosexual sex but I find it hard to believe.

(March 20, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Mohammed married a 9-year-old. That pretty much makes him a pedophile, all special pleading aside ... no matter his motivation.

One shouldn't count pedophilia against someone if the practice was not out of ordinary in his society and time. In Many ancient cultural traditions both betrothal and consummation were expected to occur during the wife's and often husband's minority.

Not really "the same god", just a character with a particular narrative lineage. You might notice, if it interests you enough to really dive in, that between any two given reps -of one religion- it's often not "the same god". Even if they're both superfans of the same book.

I doubt very much, btw that an "excommunicated" jew founded Islam, by any name. There's no reason to entertain the assumption, there's no evidence to that effect upon which to make an assumption (even for the purposes of general wondering), it's not a necessary assumption, it is not an illustrative assumption.....

"Because it has common elements with related narratives", can be explained (and is itself given much more explanatory power) by reference to the -narrative-....not the author of myth or legend. To me, it is as unsurprising to find muslims telling jewish stories as it is to find christians telling greek ones, or pagans telling christian ones. I, personally, don't see a requirement for such an exotic explanation. Suppose I wrote a story that really was a hell of alot like "Cycle of the Werewolf"........Do you think that this would be any indicator of whether or not I was from Maine?

(March 21, 2015 at 7:49 am)Chuck Wrote:

(March 20, 2015 at 5:24 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Mohammed married a 9-year-old. That pretty much makes him a pedophile, all special pleading aside ... no matter his motivation.

One shouldn't count pedophilia against someone if the practice was not out of ordinary in his society and time. In Many ancient cultural traditions both betrothal and consummation were expected to occur during the wife's and often husband's minority.

I don't hold the charge of paedophilia against muhammed. I hold it against those who want to make out that Muhammed was the perfect human being and an example to us all.

(March 21, 2015 at 5:00 am)RobertE Wrote: 1. Why do you think I introduced my cost with a conditional? "If" is such an important word.

This is irrelevant. Whether or not your conditional is granted, Mohammed's existence is not predicated on Islam's veracity. Asserting otherwise is a non sequitur.

(March 21, 2015 at 5:00 am)RobertE Wrote: 2. Did you actually read my introduction, if so, you would have noticed that I did clearly state that my knowledge is somewhat limited in this field and that is why I am here, to add my opinions to the debate, and if necessary, when corrected, to change and correct my facts with regards to the responses I got.

You wrote, "I am sure he was thrown out for this exact reason and founded Islam after". I am asking why you state this, and with such certainty. You never did clarify what you meant, either. Would you mind doing so? Are you saying you think that Mohammed was Christian or Jew, married Aisha when she was nine, and was excommunicated?

I am asking you to clarify this point, and provide the basis for your certainty.

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(March 21, 2015 at 7:49 am)Chuck Wrote: One shouldn't count pedophilia against someone if the practice was not out of ordinary in his society and time. In Many ancient cultural traditions both betrothal and consummation were expected to occur during the wife's and often husband's minority.

Slavery was once common practice too, with cruelty to one's slaves prescribed as a good means of control. Does that make the cruel master moral? Does that make the beneficent master moral?

I should think the Messenger of God would have a moral compass that was properly calibrated, no matter the culture of the time.

Difficult to see why that would get someone excommunicated. Doesn't get them excommunicated now.