(April 9, 2015 at 5:13 pm)Lek Wrote: How can you live with any joy or have any real hope or peace in life?

By doing the right thing, the thing god is unwilling to do, and attempting to surmount the suffering in this world, leaving it better in innumerable small ways than it was when we entered it. We find our joy, hope, and peace by proving ourselves, with every day and the majority of our actions, to be the moral superior of your god.

And if your only response is the inane and utterly circular "god knows better than us, therefore he's doing the right thing even when everything we know says otherwise," then I guess you have no real rebuttal to that.

How do I 'know'? A rudimentary understanding of biology and neuroscience, mostly, not that I'm an expert. The mind cannot exist without the brain. Once brain death occurs, you as an entity simply...vanish.
If belief in a deity gets you through the tough times, great. However, an increasingly large number of people are realising that we do not need such faith to take on the trials and tribulations daily life throws at us. We as a species are starting to grow up, and realise that we are our own support system.
I know the idea of nothingness after death can be scary, but if you accept it and realise this precious, rare gift of life you have is all you have, it's incredibly liberating.

(April 9, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Iroscato Wrote: ...The mind cannot exist without the brain. Once brain death occurs, you as an entity simply...vanish...

Prove your assertion. Why is it impossible for the mind continue elsewhere without your knowledge of it?

(April 9, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Esquilax Wrote: By doing the right thing, the thing god is unwilling to do, and attempting to surmount the suffering in this world, leaving it better in innumerable small ways than it was when we entered it. We find our joy, hope, and peace by proving ourselves, with every day and the majority of our actions, to be the moral superior of your god.

And if your only response is the inane and utterly circular "god knows better than us, therefore he's doing the right thing even when everything we know says otherwise," then I guess you have no real rebuttal to that.

I agree with your statement about trying to surmount the suffering in this world. God is with me to ensure that I surmount the sufferings in the world. Sometime you can avoid certain suffering, but sometimes you just have to go through it. It's also good to work to alleviate the sufferings of others by trying to eliminate the cause of their suffering or just assist them through it. It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not God is doing the right thing.

(April 9, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Mezmo! Wrote: Why is it impossible for the mind continue elsewhere without your knowledge of it?

Because there is no evidence to support the assertion that we do continue to exist in some form beyond our physical bodies.

(April 9, 2015 at 7:59 pm)Lek Wrote:   It doesn't have anything to do with whether or not God is doing the right thing.

Well, you did ask where we could draw our hope from without god, not whether or not god was doing the right thing.

But then, you believe in an omnipotent god, don't you? That, in itself, provides a refutation for the claim that god is doing the right thing: being omnipotent, it is within god's power to confer all the benefits of suffering he had in mind for us, without needing to both go through with the suffering, or impede our free will. That's just in the definition of being omnipotent; so what you have there is a god who can prevent suffering with no loss of the attendant benefits, but chooses not to do that. It would be impossible to claim that this god is doing the right thing.

(April 9, 2015 at 7:57 pm)Mezmo! Wrote:

(April 9, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Iroscato Wrote: ...The mind cannot exist without the brain. Once brain death occurs, you as an entity simply...vanish...

Prove your assertion. Why is it impossible for the mind continue elsewhere without your knowledge of it?

I think the mind does continue after death because I believe in God and what the bible teaches me about life after death. You said that after we die everything is peaceful. How do you know that the mind exists after death and that everything is peaceful? What are you basing that belief on?

(April 9, 2015 at 8:04 pm)Lek Wrote: I think the mind does continue after death because I believe in God and what the bible teaches me about life after death.

What evidence do you have that your bible is any less a farce than any other religion created by man? I swear, theists are so fucking goddamn stupid.

(April 9, 2015 at 8:03 pm)Esquilax Wrote: Well, you did ask where we could draw our hope from without god, not whether or not god was doing the right thing.

But then, you believe in an omnipotent god, don't you? That, in itself, provides a refutation for the claim that god is doing the right thing: being omnipotent, it is within god's power to confer all the benefits of suffering he had in mind for us, without needing to both go through with the suffering, or impede our free will. That's just in the definition of being omnipotent; so what you have there is a god who can prevent suffering with no loss of the attendant benefits, but chooses not to do that. It would be impossible to claim that this god is doing the right thing.

You're totally wrong. How do you know that it is wrong not to prevent suffering if you could? You are providing your opinion from your limited knowledge to prove that an omnipotent God is not doing the right thing. I realize that we're discussing a God that is imaginary as far as you are concerned, but if we're assuming that he's omnipotent, then we must assume that he knows more than we do.

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(April 9, 2015 at 8:06 pm)Sionnach Wrote: What evidence do you have that your bible is any less a farce than any other religion created by man?  I swear, theists are so fucking goddamn stupid.

If you want an answer, quit insulting me. Otherwise talk to the hand.

Oh, so now a couple of insults are enough to stop you debating? Boo hoo for you.
If death is the end of your existence, it must by definition be peaceful, because you are no longer capable of conscious thought. This is backed up by our sum understanding of the way the brain works. People who suffer brain damage and/or lobotomies rarely resemble the person they were before. You usually do not dream when under general anaesthetic and are not aware of the passage of time. You effectively do not exist as a conscious entity during that time.
I find it hilarious that you say others have 'limited knowledge' when you derive your entire belief system of life, the universe and everything from a 2000 year old, poorly translated and retranslated collection of stories that make such fantastical claims like the flood myth and god-channeling burning bushes.