What is the logicial distinction between body modification for sex change versus that for BIID?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integr...y_disorder

What are we saying here exactly? That transgenderism is disease and sex-change procedures are the cure? If so, is it a psychological disorder or a physiological one? Or is it not a disease but something that falls within the normal spectrum of gender identity? I get the sense that people want to have it both ways and that leaves people like me with a lack of clarity about the issue.

My confusion lies in what gives anyone the authority to classify differences between people as a "psychiatric disorder," individual identity, and/or mere desire.

(April 27, 2015 at 9:29 am)Nestor Wrote: My confusion lies in what gives anyone the authority to classify differences between people as a "psychiatric disorder," individual identity, and/or mere desire.

What do mean by "authority?" And do you mean by "psychiatric disorder?" I think you may just be arguing over semantics at this point. 

(April 27, 2015 at 9:29 am)Nestor Wrote: My confusion lies in what gives anyone the authority to classify differences between people as a "psychiatric disorder," individual identity, and/or mere desire.

That's because you're a bigot! So just shut-up. Ignorant bigots like you are throwbacks to Victorian repression. How dare you express any doubts about my personal truth. You're a bigot and I don't need to explain anything to you. Bigot!  (ironic)

(April 27, 2015 at 9:15 am)ChadWooters Wrote: What is the logicial distinction between body modification for sex change versus that for BIID?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integr...y_disorder

What are we saying here exactly? That transgenderism is disease and sex-change procedures are the cure? If so, is it a psychological disorder or a physiological one? Or is it not a disease but something that falls within the normal spectrum of gender identity? I get the sense that people want to have it both ways and that leaves people like me with a lack of clarity about the issue.

The logical distinction is that they are two completely different things

Honestly, a 2 second Wikipedia search would've told you what you want to know

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity_disorder

Quote:Evidence suggests that people who identify with a gender different from the one they were assigned at birth may do so not just due to psychological or behavioral causes, but also biological ones related to their genetics, the makeup of their brains, or prenatal exposure to hormones.

Quote:Gender identity disorder is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[7] and DSM-5 (called gender dysphoria).[8] Many transgender people and researchers support declassification of GID because they say the diagnosis pathologizes gender variance, reinforces the binary model of gender,[9] and can result in stigmatization of transgender individuals.[8] The official classification of gender dysphoria as a disorder in the DSM-5 may help resolve some of these issues, because the term gender dysphoria applies only to the discontent experienced by some persons resulting from gender identity issues

Quote:The current medical approach to treatment for persons diagnosed with gender identity disorder is to support the individual in physically modifying the body to better match the psychological gender identity.[10] This approach is based on the concept that their experience is based in a medical problem correctable by various forms of medical intervention.

I can certainly sympathize with someone that has a medical issue. I also know how personally how people who do not have a specific medical condition have difficulty understanding the unique challenges faced by people with disabilities. At the same time I consider sexism a serious social evil and it seems to me that the transgender issue reinforces problematic stereotypes of masculinity and femininity. Does anyone else see this tension?

That would be true if it wasn't for the fact that many trans people don't identify as male/female but as genderqueer, genderfluid, agender, etc. It's not just TransmenV.Transwomen.

(April 27, 2015 at 10:36 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I can certainly sympathize with someone that has a medical issue. I also know how personally how people who do not have a specific medical condition have difficulty understanding the unique challenges faced by people with disabilities. At the same time I consider sexism a serious social evil and it seems to me that the transgender issue reinforces problematic stereotypes of masculinity and femininity. Does anyone else see this tension?

Yes, this is a valid question, but, as has been said before, transgendered people don't experience gender dysphoria based on societal norms or gender roles, it's a mixture of genetic, hormonal, structural and psychological causes and as always it's hard to figure out how it works exactly

I see your point, though
The DSM-V only includes gender dysphoria as a disorder, which refers to the discomfort felt by transgendered individuals
This was done specifically to resolve the problem of enforcing the concept of gender being binary

(April 27, 2015 at 10:36 am)ChadWooters Wrote: I can certainly sympathize with someone that has a medical issue. I also know how personally how people who do not have a specific medical condition have difficulty understanding the unique challenges faced by people with disabilities. At the same time I consider sexism a serious social evil and it seems to me that the transgender issue reinforces problematic stereotypes of masculinity and femininity. Does anyone else see this tension?

Not particularly, mostly because the spectrum of what's actually happening is broader than you might think. Trans people don't necessarily wish to transition from one idealized gender stereotype to another, they simply wish to be themselves, which they view to be a different gender than their biological one; their desires, from what I've heard from trans and queer friends, have less to do with gender constructs and more to do with the literal physicality of what's happening to them. Imagine waking up in a body that isn't yours, consider the dissonance in your mind from that, and you'll have something close.

But more broadly, hypothetically, let's say you're right: what would you actually want done about that? Should potential trans folk just have to suffer to make correcting sexists an easier job? Surely there's some form of lesson about gender identity that could be drawn from that situation that aids in dispelling sexism?

I would like to see someone address Nestor's question. I think it has bearing on furthering understanding:

(April 27, 2015 at 9:29 am)Nestor Wrote: My confusion lies in what gives anyone the authority to classify differences between people as a "psychiatric disorder," individual identity, and/or mere desire.