Ok, so we just talked on the phone, but he said that why not just look at porn magazines, why not just "live it up", because you're not accountable to anyone?? How do I answer that objection to my Atheism?? He also said, where are you going to go when "your hear melts down", ie, hard times hit? Finally, he said that morals come from somewhere, and that we are getting worse rather then better, as human beings-presumably without Christianity.

I really would like to know how to answer him.

Why do you even bother listening to him? All he can do is try to sell you the same old shit you have already rejected?

Anyone who can read his fucking bible and talk about morality is a horse's ass to begin with. Just because he cloaks it in sanctimonious language does not change the essential fact that if his god existed, he'd be a prick.

(September 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Ok, so we just talked on the phone, but he said that why not just look at porn magazines, why not just "live it up", because you're not accountable to anyone?? How do I answer that objection to my Atheism?? He also said, where are you going to go when "your hear melts down", ie, hard times hit? Finally, he said that morals come from somewhere, and that we are getting worse rather then better, as human beings-presumably without Christianity.

I really would like to know how to answer him.

Humanity today is overall vastly more giving than in previous centuries.
Aid pours from around the world to disaster areas in ways that they just didnt before.
Wars between 'civilised' countries now try to minimise collatoral damage rather than cause as much as possible.
People are far more tolerant of other races, religions, nationalities than at any time in history.
Woman are accepted as equals in most societies.
In really civilised countries health care is free at the point of service.

Your pastor seems to be harking back to a golden age that never existed.

Now is the time that people are at the best towards each other, tell him that.

As religion dies people get to be better people.

(September 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Ok, so we just talked on the phone, but he said that why not just look at porn magazines

Indeed...why not? There isn't any harm in looking at porn. I mean, some people suffer "porn addiction", but it is a rarity.

Quote:why not just "live it up", because you're not accountable to anyone??

Well you are accountable to people; mainly your family, friends, people who you work for, or who work for you, etc. You are accountable to society to keep certain standards because otherwise society will look down on you and may not help you in the future. You can "live it up" to some degree; just don't overdo it. Being an atheist doesn't mean you no longer have any self-control.

Quote:he also said, where are you going to go when "your hear melts down", ie, hard times hit?

When hard times hit, instead of going to a corrupt organisation such as a church, or spending time on the useless activity of prayer, atheists do things in the real world that can help. If you are hit with troubles; you think about things and sort yourself out, or you get together with friends and help each other. Everyone has been through hard times before; and religion doesn't do anything to help you out of them...people do.

Quote:Finally, he said that morals come from somewhere, and that we are getting worse rather then better, as human beings-presumably without Christianity.

Morals come from society, and they are ever-changing. We are only getting "worse" in his eyes because he uses a strict set of moral laws that were derived millennia ago. Nowadays, things like freedom and equality are considered to be the highest moral and ethical stances, and so our society is gradually moving towards them, step by step. If you use an archaic, anti-freedom and anti-equality based moral code, then society as it is today does appear to be getting worse. If you use a modern, pro-freedom and pro-equality moral code, then society is getting better.

(September 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Ok, so we just talked on the phone, but he said that why not just look at porn magazines, why not just "live it up", because you're not accountable to anyone?? How do I answer that objection to my Atheism?? He also said, where are you going to go when "your hear melts down", ie, hard times hit? Finally, he said that morals come from somewhere, and that we are getting worse rather then better, as human beings-presumably without Christianity.

I really would like to know how to answer him.

You are not accountable to an invisible non existent being. That would be thought of as a sane thing. You are accountable to other humans, as they are to you.

Where do you go? Nowhere. Where does he think he's going. And how does he know that?

Morality in us, as other animals is a bi-product of biology and socio-economic evolution. For insatnce name a society which has flourished that thought that murdering it's citizens was OK. They wouldn't have survived. As for Christian morality has he read the bible?

(September 15, 2010 at 2:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why do you even bother listening to him? All he can do is try to sell you the same old shit you have already rejected?

Anyone who can read his fucking bible and talk about morality is a horse's ass to begin with. Just because he cloaks it in sanctimonious language does not change the essential fact that if his god existed, he'd be a prick.

A good discussion is going on here, but my former pastor IS a nice guy-if his god exists, he would not be a "prick". He never has been. Please, go easy on a good guy who is just concerned about me.

(September 15, 2010 at 2:33 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Well you are accountable to people; mainly your family, friends, people who you work for, or who work for you, etc. You are accountable to society to keep certain standards because otherwise society will look down on you and may not help you in the future. You can "live it up" to some degree; just don't overdo it. Being an atheist doesn't mean you no longer have any self-control.

Not to mention that I'm accountable to, as Micheal Jackson sang, "the man in the mirror".

(September 15, 2010 at 2:02 pm)dave4shmups Wrote: Ok, so we just talked on the phone, but he said that why not just look at porn magazines, why not just "live it up", because you're not accountable to anyone?? How do I answer that objection to my Atheism?? He also said, where are you going to go when "your hear melts down", ie, hard times hit? Finally, he said that morals come from somewhere, and that we are getting worse rather then better, as human beings-presumably without Christianity.

Why not just live it up? I'm all about self-controlled hedonism (yay porno!), I have one life to live, let's have some fun! But at the same time I have the human drive to succeed, have a family, and I don't want to hurt others, I have a strong passion for helping people in fact.

When I hit hard times I do what everyone does, go to family, friends, and the people I'm close to. Your pastor isn't doing anything different, his congregation and his friends in the church are his support. Why do I need to have the same support? Especially one that thinks at the end of the day I'm burning and in pain for eternity.

As to getting better or worse; by whose definition?

I would argue a society that legalizes victimless "crimes" like recreational drugs and prostitution, provides government healthcare, only budgets for a defensive military, invests heavily in science and technology, doesn't get riled up about homosexuality or race, and lets me do my thing is far superior and more moral than a Christian nation (so really, I cannot WAIT for the rapture), but your pastor would disagree with me.

Whenever you feel stuck by a question your pastor poses, remember that he's always making these grand assumptions that his view of right and moral is the universal one. He has no more authority on the subject than you or I do. His suggestion that looking at porn magazine is bad, well the only reason I agree is because its free and better online, who the hell still reads magazines? : P If loving the pleasures of life is wrong, I don't want to be right!

(September 15, 2010 at 3:18 pm)dave4shmups Wrote:

(September 15, 2010 at 2:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Why do you even bother listening to him? All he can do is try to sell you the same old shit you have already rejected?

Anyone who can read his fucking bible and talk about morality is a horse's ass to begin with. Just because he cloaks it in sanctimonious language does not change the essential fact that if his god existed, he'd be a prick.

A good discussion is going on here, but my former pastor IS a nice guy-if his god exists, he would not be a "prick". He never has been. Please, go easy on a good guy who is just concerned about me.

Really? Looks more like he is into "control" than anything else. Just because he believes his fantasies does not make them true. And it does not require you to continue living by what you have already rejected.

Why does he push the continual guilt trip on you?

Point out that you are accountable - To your friends, family, community, state, government, the international community etc.

And then point out that at least these things are demonstrably true

And none of them care if you whack off, why? Because we all fucking do it!

And just thinking that you are accountable to a cosmic wizard doesn't make it so!