My mind remains un-blown, sorry.

The thing is, no one can ever prove that there is or isn't magical non-physical snooker balls which keep the universe from crumbling into itself. So it's just up to us to decide whether we believe in them or not.

I believe in them. Why else would the universe not crumble if it wasn't for these snooker balls?

They would be red, if we could see them. But we can't see them. They also dislike anyone eating sandwiches on Wednesdays. Show some respect.

(May 29, 2015 at 3:58 pm)ronedee Wrote: Ignorance may be the only way to heaven, for most.

That makes it sound as if god's plan depended on most people accidentally stumbling into the truth. But that doesn't square with the depiction of god in the Bible: he is personally involved in the lives and events of many people, performing miracles and grand and powerful gestures and delivering profound teachings all the time. Why would he suddenly stop and decide to make salvation a spiritual game of Russian Roulette?

Why do so many explanations for god make him seem either ill-prepared, foolish, or very mean?

ronedee Wrote:Lets face it.... there isn't much in the way of "proof" for either of us. But existence itself is a more compelling argument for God, than against.

But only because of gaps in our knowledge. Lightning itself used to be a "more compelling argument for God, than against" at one time, due to lack of proof. So was the diversity of life. And any number of other phenomena for which we have explanations that do not require a god, now that we have discovered how they really work or happen. The rational approach is to think that any phenomena for which we do not yet have an explanation will not turn out to be supernatural. The track record is bare in that regards.

(May 29, 2015 at 6:19 pm)ronedee Wrote: Atheists look at everything based on mans understanding of the universe..... which is logic from a tiny dark box! To quote Thomas Edison, "we don't know one millionth of a percent about anything." For atheists there is no accounting for the vastly superior intelligence of a God who created the universe. That baffles me! Doesn't it make more sense to try and understand God together, than to end every serious debate with a rude joke, or insult? My take on the childish shit is, the only one who is really laughing is the really, really smart guy.

Childish? We would love to discover this God of yours together; however, you and other God botherers are never capable of producing a specimen for study. All you provide are unsubstantiated claims. Starting a debate assuming God's existence can hardly be considered serious. Only a childlike mind would insist others believe what cannot be justified.

(May 29, 2015 at 6:19 pm)ronedee Wrote: But existence itself is a more compelling argument for God, than against.

Yes!  All praise Pangu, creator of the universe!

(May 29, 2015 at 6:19 pm)ronedee Wrote: Atheists look at everything based on mans understanding of the universe..... which is logic from a tiny dark box! To quote Thomas Edison, "we don't know one millionth of a percent about anything." For atheists there is no accounting for the vastly superior intelligence of a God who created the universe.

Don't forget that it is from exactly the same inadequate tiny dark box that your lot postulates a million-times smarter creator. Merely claiming to have a really smart secret friend doesn't mean one exists. Disparaging the reasoning capacities of everyone who isn't your secret friend doesn't elevate anything you have to say. Your low estimate of human intelligence tells us much more about yourself than it does anything else.

I see you still haven't disproved my pink invisible incorporeal magic dragons. I'm compelled to let you know that because of your unbelief in them your soul will be promptly gobbled up as soon as you die and farted out into nothingness after being tormented in the Digestive System. It's not too late to repent....

Jesus didn't die .... he committed suicide to get away from the fuckers!

(May 29, 2015 at 1:07 pm)ronedee Wrote: hmmmmm.... still waiting for "that" answer?

Hold your breath.

Pleeeaase.

---

(May 29, 2015 at 3:58 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(May 29, 2015 at 2:03 pm)Thackerie Wrote: I would have said "ignorance," but then I realized that ignorance is one of few reasons to believe in a god and sin and all that crap in the first place.

Yes! You win the prize. Actually, all of you do..... by reason of "Ignorance". And Jesus even exonerates you from the cross: "Father forgive them. For they know not what they do."

But, that "ignorance" doesn't come without a price. Not necessarily eternal damnation. But, there will be a "cost". Because the "wages of sin is death". Jesus put no stock in "blood sacrifice". Its Eternal Life that was, and is the ultimate goal. And that is what hangs in the balance. The "way" He went was to emphasis His death. He could've went any way He chose. Unfortunately, its what we demanded of Him! His purpose was to live a perfect life, and to teach us how to live to attain eternal life! Not to die horrifically. That was just the means to an end. You have it all backwards because of the way you think.

Luke 12.4-7
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him."

So, if you can get past those nailed-shut minds. And think of reasons "why", instead of "why not".... it may make "some" sense to you that just perhaps, things are the way they are in this life for a reason.

Ignorance may be the only way to heaven, for most. For me? Its not an option. "For those who much is given, much is expected." So, enjoy your blissful ignorance. But, be prepared. There is still a price according to your level of ignorance! Good Luck!

Ronedee: Dunning-Kruger personified.

(May 30, 2015 at 12:32 pm)Parkers Tan Wrote: Hold your breath.

Pleeeaase.

Thanks for your insightful input.... and for making my point.