(May 31, 2015 at 8:20 pm)Losty Wrote: ... Why are Catholics the snobbyist Christians and also the most sorry excuses for followers of Christ? I think the catholic version of the bible must have a verse that says "Always be a dick to everyone who disagrees with you, preferably a sexist racist dick but not required."

Much as it displeases me to say this, but you are wrong, Losty.  It is required that one be a sexist dick to be a Catholic.  Just look at the Bible on women, and look at the place of women in the Catholic church.  Typically (perhaps always), they add insult to injury, and tell women that they should be pleased to be kept in their place.

(May 31, 2015 at 8:28 pm)Jenny A Wrote: OH!  You don't just mean any god, you mean the one you believe in.  I would believe in him if real proof were presented.  Of course meeting him in all his glory would count as proof, at least if I was sure it wasn't a dream, or something like that.

So assuming I believe and I meet my maker, would I love him?  Depends on what he's like.  Love isn't something you can just do.  Either you do or you don't. 

Would I obey him?  Probably, he seems like a pretty vengeful guy and all powerful is well, all powerful.  Prudence would suggest care in how I dealt with him.

But, I really don't want Yahweh to exist.  He's an ugly, ugly figure as depicted by the Bible. 

But, He made us in His image! So, we must all be a lot like Him! What's NOT to like about ourselves?

"IF you met your maker, the one who created YOU in HIS image, would you accept Him unconditionally [without question] in every way?
Will you Love Him? Or would you deny Him your love based on His absence in this life?"

No, I would not. I would probably lie and say I did out of fear of what he would do to me for not loving him, but if he's a god he would know my heart and know that I don't love him. I have a hard time with love. Because of my history, love is a very scary thing for me. You have to be someone I am very very close with and someone I trust wholly before I could ever love you. Not a stranger. Not someone who is absent. Most certainly not someone who created me and then abandoned me here when I was too small and weak to protect myself.

Love is an emotional thing. I can never understand why anyone would ever love another person or thing or god without question or unconditionally. Unconditional love is stupid and dangerous.

(May 31, 2015 at 8:34 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(May 31, 2015 at 8:28 pm)Jenny A Wrote: OH!  You don't just mean any god, you mean the one you believe in.  I would believe in him if real proof were presented.  Of course meeting him in all his glory would count as proof, at least if I was sure it wasn't a dream, or something like that.

So assuming I believe and I meet my maker, would I love him?  Depends on what he's like.  Love isn't something you can just do.  Either you do or you don't. 

Would I obey him?  Probably, he seems like a pretty vengeful guy and all powerful is well, all powerful.  Prudence would suggest care in how I dealt with him.

But, I really don't want Yahweh to exist.  He's an ugly, ugly figure as depicted by the Bible. 

But, He made us in His image! So, we must all be a lot like Him! What's NOT to like about ourselves?

And you reconcile that opinion with original sin how?

And no, humans do not have a good track record with weaker things.  Come to think of it neither does god.

(May 31, 2015 at 5:57 pm)ronedee Wrote: Because most of you said "no" ... you've made your minds up already.

Yeah, I kind of thought that's where this was leading. Theists want to pretend that atheists have rejected a god that they "know" exist so that they can dismiss any reasoning or questions regarding the existence of god. Asking such an ambiguous question and demanding a yes/no answer isn't an honest attempt at dialogue as much as a desire to try and close the issue. I don't see why you would find this satisfying, though.

ronedee Wrote:To clarify my question, for those who don't understand it: 

IF you met your maker, the one who created YOU in HIS image, would you accept Him unconditionally [without question] in every way? 
Will you Love Him? Or would you deny Him your love based on His absence in this life?

Presumably, you are referring to Yahweh, the god of the Bible, and not a different god.

If Yahweh turned out to be real, I would acknowledge that he was real. I would then beg him to end my existence as soon as possible, because the god described in the Bible is simply terrifying. He cannot be stopped and his every whim becomes reality, and we know that he has no moral obligations, because his every action is "good" by default. The idea of spending eternity existing in a universe where the most arbitrary and capricious and utterly unpredictable personality is also the supreme and unstoppable power fills me with dread. Why would you want such a scenario to be real? And why do you think you can boil my assessment down to a yes/no answer, as if those concerns were of no import?

(May 31, 2015 at 8:35 pm)Losty Wrote: "IF you met your maker, the one who created YOU in HIS image, would you accept Him unconditionally [without question] in every way?
Will you Love Him? Or would you deny Him your love based on His absence in this life?"

No, I would not. I would probably lie and say I did out of fear of what he would do to me for not loving him, but if he's a god he would know my heart and know that I don't love him. I have a hard time with love. Because of my history, love is a very scary thing for me. You have to be someone I am very very close with and someone I trust wholly before I could ever love you. Not a stranger. Not someone who is absent. Most certainly not someone who created me and then abandoned me here when I was too small and weak to protect myself.

Love is an emotional thing. I can never understand why anyone would ever love another person or thing or god without question or unconditionally. Unconditional love is stupid and dangerous.

Hey, I've been burned too! So I feel your pain. Like the 8 y/o said earlier in this thread: "what matters is how we treat each other in our life that is important." And I believe that is really what matters to a perfect God. Because in the end... all we have is who we've loved. Peace Losty!

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(May 31, 2015 at 8:38 pm)Jenny A Wrote:

(May 31, 2015 at 8:34 pm)ronedee Wrote: But, He made us in His image! So, we must all be a lot like Him! What's NOT to like about ourselves?

And you reconcile that opinion with original sin how?

And no, humans do not have a good track record with weaker things.  Come to think of it neither does god.

Honestly, I relate God to life... not necessarily to what ancient men wrote on parchment. I have a realist pov. And a litmus test I use. Works for me!

Quote: This is like a kiddy romper room! There is no exchange of ideas or anything of substance.... mostly idiotic sarcasm and bullshit.

What do you expect when you make a thread with no substance, and then try to call out people that are actually sane?

Losty

Quote:I think the catholic version of the bible must have a verse that says "Always be a dick to everyone who disagrees with you, preferably a sexist racist dick but not required."

That’s every version of the bible, not just the catholic’s bible. What can you expect? They’re just emulating their god. They live by a loophole, that they can actually do whatever they want, and say sorry to jesus, and everything is ok. Also, everything they do can be justified, because there are so many ripe cherries to pick from in that wonderful piece of literature..the good, the evil, and the fucking moronic.

Although, I live with an asshole catholic, so I can see your point.

(May 31, 2015 at 8:39 pm)Tonus Wrote: Presumably, you are referring to Yahweh, the god of the Bible, and not a different god.

If Yahweh turned out to be real, I would acknowledge that he was real.  I would then beg him to end my existence as soon as possible, because the god described in the Bible is simply terrifying.  He cannot be stopped and his every whim becomes reality, and we know that he has no moral obligations, because his every action is "good" by default.  The idea of spending eternity existing in a universe where the most arbitrary and capricious and utterly unpredictable personality is also the supreme and unstoppable power fills me with dread.  Why would you want such a scenario to be real?  And why do you think you can boil my assessment down to a yes/no answer, as if those concerns were of no import?

Well.... while we're "assuming"... what IF He said: All that stuff down there is bullshit!" I created you and the others, and well.... left you on your own." I figured that you needed to
learn things on your own." And I knew that you wouldn't want me telling you anything, so I just left that great planet for you to use while I was gone." Do you hate me for that?"

(May 31, 2015 at 8:42 pm)ronedee Wrote:

(May 31, 2015 at 8:35 pm)Losty Wrote: "IF you met your maker, the one who created YOU in HIS image, would you accept Him unconditionally [without question] in every way?
Will you Love Him? Or would you deny Him your love based on His absence in this life?"

No, I would not. I would probably lie and say I did out of fear of what he would do to me for not loving him, but if he's a god he would know my heart and know that I don't love him. I have a hard time with love. Because of my history, love is a very scary thing for me. You have to be someone I am very very close with and someone I trust wholly before I could ever love you. Not a stranger. Not someone who is absent. Most certainly not someone who created me and then abandoned me here when I was too small and weak to protect myself.

Love is an emotional thing. I can never understand why anyone would ever love another person or thing or god without question or unconditionally. Unconditional love is stupid and dangerous.

Hey, I've been burned too! So I feel your pain. Like the 8 y/o said earlier in this thread: "what matters is how we treat each other in our life that is important." And I believe that is really what matters to a perfect God. Because in the end... all we have is who we've loved. Peace Losty!

You do not know me, nor do you know anything of my pain. I will tell you what love means to me. Love means always being there even if it hurts to do so. Love means making sacrifices and compromises. Love means going out of your way to avoid hurting someone and doing everything in your power to comfort them when it cannot be avoided. Love means being protective and loyal. You do not seek vengeance on the ones you love. You do not sit by and watch them suffer. You do not abandon them. 

If you are right, and in the end all we have is who we've loved, that would leave your fake god completely alone. The god character in your holy book has never loved anyone but itself. 

(May 31, 2015 at 8:48 pm)Salacious B. Crumb Wrote:

Quote: This is like a kiddy romper room! There is no exchange of ideas or anything of substance.... mostly idiotic sarcasm and bullshit.

What do you expect when you make a thread with no substance, and then try to call out people that are actually sane?

Really? No substance? wtf are you hanging around and responding to insanity? Nothing better to do this evening?

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(May 31, 2015 at 8:52 pm)Losty Wrote:

(May 31, 2015 at 8:42 pm)ronedee Wrote: Hey, I've been burned too! So I feel your pain. Like the 8 y/o said earlier in this thread: "what matters is how we treat each other in our life that is important." And I believe that is really what matters to a perfect God. Because in the end... all we have is who we've loved. Peace Losty!

You do not know me, nor do you know anything of my pain. I will tell you what love means to me. Love means always being there even if it hurts to do so. Love means making sacrifices and compromises. Love means going out of your way to avoid hurting someone and doing everything in your power to comfort them when it cannot be avoided. Love means being protective and loyal. You do not seek vengeance on the ones you love. You do not sit by and watch them suffer. You do not abandon them. 

If you are right, and in the end all we have is who we've loved, that would leave your fake god completely alone. The god character in your holy book has never loved anyone but itself. 

Well... you don't know me either. And I don't need your definition of Love. What if it turns out that God is Love? Then what?