(June 17, 2015 at 10:23 am)Napoléon Wrote: Jon Snow doesn't have a Tyrion, or any other character with as much screen time to fill the obvious void in the plot he was involved in however. And even if he did, even if it were Daenerys, it doesn't negate what an epic time waste it is that a character has so much screen time to have such an inconsequential death. The only real way his death would make sense if he were brought back later on in some form. At least in my opinion. Otherwise his plot, the entire plot of the night's watch turns into a stub. It's different to when Rob died, or when Ned died, because both of those plots deepened. It was instantly foreseeable how the deaths of each character would lead on to other things. Jon Snow's death just undoes a great deal of story development, completely destroys any purpose or point to his story and frankly, turns out to be a massive waste in time for all involved.

Well, I see your point.
But I also see that other people have been thinking about this for a few years now... the book readers!

Most likely, he gets resurrected by Melisandre.

If he remains dead, the night's watch will now have to deal with all the wildlings Jon put south of the wall and the whitewalkers on the north side. Aliser Thorne takes over.
Or, he becomes an undead... perhaps similar to Coldhands... oh, that's right, show viewers never met Coldhands.
Coldhands was a guy who helped Bran reach his goal. He fought against the zombies... and his hands were cold and dark, Bran never got to see his face because he's covered with the robe of the night's watch.... we are lead to think he may be Benjen (very likely a former brother) turned into a whight, but retaining his nobility and sense of duty... or something.
Could Jon return as such a character?

Coldhands is badass, and most certainly undead as he doesn't eat or drink or even breathe. He rides a giant elk and is protected by a massive flock of ravens that are controlled by the Three-Eyed Raven (Bloodraven/Brynden Rivers).

However, GRRM has conclusively said when questioned that Coldhands is not Benjen.

(June 17, 2015 at 10:46 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: However, GRRM has conclusively said when questioned that Coldhands is not Benjen.

There goes one theory...

(June 17, 2015 at 10:46 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Perhaps Bloodraven can somehow warg into wights as he does with the ravens?

Oh boy... and if Bran can learn to do it, too?... Bran inside Jon?

(June 17, 2015 at 10:50 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(June 17, 2015 at 10:46 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Perhaps Bloodraven can somehow warg into wights as he does with the ravens?

Oh boy... and if Bran can learn to do it, too?... Bran inside Jon?

Heh, did a little reading up on him and he's not a wight or white walker. He has black eyes, not blue, and seems to operate on his own agency, not under the control of Bloodraven.

(June 17, 2015 at 10:52 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(June 17, 2015 at 10:50 am)pocaracas Wrote: Oh boy... and if Bran can learn to do it, too?... Bran inside Jon?

Heh, did a little reading up on him and he's not a wight or white walker.  He has black eyes, not blue, and seems to operate on his own agency, not under the control of Bloodraven.

black eyes? sure?
hmm...
As for his agency... things aren't always what they seem... Why would he have threatened Samwel like he did?

(June 17, 2015 at 10:43 am)pocaracas Wrote: Well, I see your point.
But I also see that other people have been thinking about this for a few years now... the book readers!

Most likely, he gets resurrected by Melisandre.

If he remains dead, the night's watch will now have to deal with all the wildlings Jon put south of the wall and the whitewalkers on the north side. Aliser Thorne takes over.
Or, he becomes an undead... perhaps similar to Coldhands... oh, that's right, show viewers never met Coldhands.

This is along the lines of what I was thinking might happen. If Jon isn't resurrected by Melisandre then I thought he'd somehow become either an undead guy or be resurrected somehow into the army of the dead but retain some part of himself that means he doesn't become a fighting zombie or something...

I get the frustration that Jon's death seemed kind of futile or pointless, but at the same time I see it as a sort of inevitable consequence of his actions. He was elected by a slim margin, made friends with the wildlings, sacrificed the live of Night's Watchmen who despite coming from some of the slimiest scum in Westeros nevertheless become a pretty tight-knit and loyal group to each other for a band of wildlings, he sent away his closest ally and friend leaving him all alone... When it happened I was a little surprised by his death, but at the same time I thought, "Well, par for the course..."

(June 17, 2015 at 10:59 am)pocaracas Wrote:

(June 17, 2015 at 10:52 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Heh, did a little reading up on him and he's not a wight or white walker.  He has black eyes, not blue, and seems to operate on his own agency, not under the control of Bloodraven.

black eyes? sure?
hmm...
As for his agency... things aren't always what they seem... Why would he have threatened Samwel like he did?

I'm having trouble recalling when Coldhands threatened Sam, haven't read the books in a while. But, even then it was most likely to ensure that Bran got to Bloodraven as fast/easily as possible.

(June 17, 2015 at 11:06 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote:

(June 17, 2015 at 10:59 am)pocaracas Wrote: black eyes? sure?
hmm...
As for his agency... things aren't always what they seem... Why would he have threatened Samwel like he did?

I'm having trouble recalling when Coldhands threatened Sam, haven't read the books in a while.  But, even then it was most likely to ensure that Bran got to Bloodraven as fast/easily as possible.

Quote:The world believes the boy is dead ... Let his bones lie undisturbed. We want no seekers coming after us. Swear it, Samwell of the Night's Watch. Swear it for the life you owe me.[5] ”
– Coldhands, to Samwell Tarly

Oh, I wouldn't call that a threat. He's telling Sam to keep Bran's whereabouts a secret in repayment for Coldhands saving Sam's life.

(June 17, 2015 at 11:23 am)FatAndFaithless Wrote: Oh, I wouldn't call that a threat. He's telling Sam to keep Bran's whereabouts a secret in repayment for Coldhands saving Sam's life.

Yes, most likely, it's that... but could also be a veiled threat - you tell anyone, I come kill you.