(June 25, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: Hi everyone!

I'm not sure whether this is the right place to post this, but I'd really appreciate some answers to some/all of the following questions. I'm interested in how an average atheist thinks about these topics. It would be great if you could give some explanation for your answers. I'm coming from a protestant worldview.

1. Does God exist?
2. Where did the universe come from?
3. Does my life have a purpose?
4. Why do people suffer?
5. Is there life after death?
6. Can I distinguish right from wrong?
7. Can people know truth?

Sorry for being point form. 

Hello, welcome

1. Depends on what "God" is. I've never been given a coherent definition. If we're talking about the characters in popular holy books, then there is no credible evidence that they do exist.

2. No idea.

3. Objectively, no. Purpose is an abstract judgement than is made by an intelligence. So to me, my life has a purpose.

4. Because it's generally unavoidable. The world is a harsh place.

5. No credible evidence that there is such a thing.

6. I can make good decisions to maximise wellbeing and minimise harm, based on what I consider to be valuable. Morality is subjective so I don't claim my judgements to be any sort of absolute.

7. We can't ever know that what we think is true is certainly and objectively true, no. We can only ever make pragmatic assumptions and probability judgements.

(June 26, 2015 at 5:15 am)Louis Chérubin Wrote:

(June 26, 2015 at 4:57 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: The components exist is the part we do know, the process in which they combined to form life is the part we don't know but are trying to figure out.

Simply claiming goddidit without any evidence is flat out lying.

OK Aoi, I appreciate your sentiment. Hopefully you can understand that I think God is a reasonable explanation for the cosmos based on scientific evidence. I don't really have anything to gain by lying.

If you do have such evidence, please do share. I am always open to correcting myself if I am wrong.

We don't doubt that you believe it, and feel you have sufficient evidence. That is your call to make.

You may want to start by defining the thing you're trying to demonstrate Be careful to avoid tautologies, such as:

"God is the thing that made the universe. So if the universe was made, it was made by God."

It's even worse than a tautology because it presumes the "if" part is met (often implicitly) when it certainly has not been demonstrated. I just taught you how to be WLC, by the way

More importantly, if it does exist:

1) Why should any of us care?

2) How do you justify the total non sequitur from God to Yahweh, scientifically?

(June 26, 2015 at 4:04 am)Louis Chérubin Wrote:

(June 26, 2015 at 3:59 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Late to the party, as always.....

Welcome to the forum Louis


1. What's a god?
2. We don't know. That's the only honest answer. Anything beyond that is speculation.
3. I don't know. Did you give it one?
4. Because shit isn't perfect. Something your god could hypothetically fix if he gave a fuck.
5. Do you realize how dumb that sounds? Death is the end of life. How can there be life after the end of life?
6. Can you make a moral judgement on kicking a puppy?
7. Define 'truth'

Now can you tell me what's the purpose of this? These questions sound like you should answer them, not us

Hi!

If you peruse this engaging thread, you'll find my answers to your two last sentences. Thanks for the welcome!

5. Sorry, I should have said, "Is there afterlife after death?" But that sounds dumb to?
7. "The quality or state of being true" (NOAD).

Ok

Yes, that still sounds dumb to me, it's contradictory

What does it mean when something is true?

And for real, can you give me a definition of god? What is a god exactly?

(Yes, autocorrect, I did mean 'sunroof'. What would I do without you -_-)

(June 25, 2015 at 9:59 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: [...]
1. Does God exist?
2. Where did the universe come from?
3. Does my life have a purpose?
4. Why do people suffer?
5. Is there life after death?
6. Can I distinguish right from wrong?
7. Can people know truth?
[...]

1. Yes. I am God. Yay! Blessed he, who onto me cometh, yada yada yada...
2. I got really, really drunk one week...
3. Yes. Fetch me some booze.
4. Because you touch yourself at night. Now - how about that booze?
5. No. There's barely any life before...
6. I hope you can, kiddo. Prison is not all sunshine and pony-rides...
7. Yes. But first they have to let go of the fairy-tales.

Hope that helps...

1. Does God exist? No. There is absolutely no evidence for any god claim so god propositions cannot bet taken seriously. Any idea the necessarily relies on the existence of God can be summarily flushed; e.g., the idea of sin.

2. Where did the universe come from? The Big Bang theory satisfies many of our observations to date. If your question is really 'What caused the Big Bang', the answer is nobody knows. Anyone claiming certainty on this matter is simply full of shit.

3. Does my life have a purpose? Only that which you give it.

4. Why do people suffer? Day to day, because we do a poor job of taking care of one another. Humans seem to be good at grouping people into groups of 'others' and then ignoring or accentuating their plight. If you are referring to things like natural disasters, it's somewhat unavoidable. Nature doesn't care about us so it's up to us to stay out of it's way, which today is still exceedingly difficult in some circumstances.

5. Is there life after death? No. There is no evidence for the afterlife.

6. Can I distinguish right from wrong? Yes, unless you're a psychopath or suffer from some mentally debilitating disorder.

7. Can people know truth? This is a loaded question depending on how you define truth. If a general use of the word truth is the understanding, then yes. If truth takes the meaning exhaustive definitive knowledge of any subject then I'll have to say we can approximate knowledge of this truth, but can never be 100% certain holding out the possibility of new information.

(June 25, 2015 at 10:53 pm)Louis Chérubin Wrote: My two biggest problems with atheism are the origin of life and the origin of consciousness. Feel free to hack away!

Arguments from ignorance. Pointing at a God that cannot be demonstrated in attempt to assign cause for other things that can't be explained is hardly a solution. It seems that you are uncomfortable with uncertainty.

(June 26, 2015 at 2:59 am)Louis Chérubin Wrote: I recently listened to Richard Dawkins speak as part of a panel discussion. He mentioned that perhaps life came from an extraterrestrial source. Is that not vaguely similar to "naked humans created from the dust"? Really, the question of life's origin may be more thought-provoking than you take it to be. Why do you feel that God is not an alternative explantation?

No you didn't and no it isn't. You heard that either in the film "Expelled - No Intelligence Required" or a video of selected highlights from it; that or a likely edited panel discussion in which he talks about the disingenuous interview technique used in that film. Professor Dawkins has written and spoken at length about the experience and how Ben Stein's question, of what scenario Dawkins could imagine in which so-called 'intelligent design' might conceivably be possible, was curiously omitted in order to make him sound as though he believes in aliens. For the record, he doesn't now and didn't then think that aliens seeded life on this planet; and further, went on to say that even granting the possibility, at some point there must have been something like Darwinian evolution to bring about the original lifeforms in the first place. Check your sources in future, because it just seems like you're lying at this point.

(June 26, 2015 at 3:51 am)Louis Chérubin Wrote: OK. I may have just learned something new! But doesn't the definition of atheist mean that a god is not an available solution for the origin of the universe? Also, did you know that William of Ockham was a Franciscan friar? :-) I would recommend a deeper study of his theology before using him to disprove God. In fact, his razor has been used in certain dark regions of cosmology to support the idea of God. (!?)

There is no evidence for God; therefore, he is not available for anything including the creation of the universe.

William of Ockham was accused of heresy and dispatched to Avignon to answer the charges. While there he aided Michael of Cesena in his heresy defense which resulted in William accusing the Pope of heresy. William and Michael stole away in the dark ans sought the protection of the Holy Roman Emperor who was embroiled in a political conflict with the Pope. William lived out the rest of his life under his protection. William most definitely believed in God, but I wouldn't be to quick to hold him up as a poster boy for toeing the Christian line. I also tire of Christians pointing to some historic learned figure's belief in God. All this demonstrates is someone's belief, it says absolutely nothing about the existence of God. It also ignores the very real possibility that said person wouldn't change his/her mind if they had the intervening centuries' accumulated knowledge at their disposal.

The Law of Parsimony is most often called Ockham's Razor, but it's formulation as Ockham's Razor is never found in his writings. In fact, the Law of Parsimony is a tool wielded by pretty much all medieval philosophers and those that follow.

(June 26, 2015 at 4:37 am)Louis Chérubin Wrote:

(June 26, 2015 at 4:04 am)ignoramus Wrote: Well, you got your answer rex!  Happy now! What, did you actually think that we would answer honestly!  You should know better than that.
The whole forum knows he's not about to go and start killing people irrespective of his beliefs. He just can't bring himself to acknowledge that, for then, why is god needed, if his internal moral compass (The only true one, natures one) does the job anyway.
If you are going to live your life based on someone elses dogma, then that stops you from thinking for yourself, and that's where the danger lies.

Ignoramus,

I'm interested in the fact that you think you're not "living your life based on someone else's dogma." Do you think you aren't patterning your beliefs on previously conceived ideas? If you are implying that my thinking is blind following, what evidence do you have for that?

Society dictates to all of us what is right and wrong based on what is tolerable and intolerable.
That's as obvious and truthful as I can be.
Skydaddy not needed. But that won't stop you shoving him in there somewhere.